Kashmir Issue [Archive] - Bollywood Heaven Forums

azn_pryde

17-10-2007, 11:37 PM

WTF....and why should India get Kashmir....I think both of these countries are full of fucking idiots who don't realize that there is already a boundary....so why the fuck should they both be trying to get more land for their country when more than half their fucking country's people are dying of hunger...?!....India deserving Kashmir is the stupidest thing I've ever heard....as is Pakistan also deserving Kashmir....its stupid idiologies like that that keep killing more innocent women and children in those areas.....

thats what do you think would be better ??

kashmir be a neutral country?? kashmir be split in half??

HISTORY LESSON!

Pakistan and Bangladesh was all India at one point. However in 1947, when India gained Independence, the country was paritioned into two countries. India and Pakistan. There was west pakistan which is still pakistan and then East pakistan which today is Bangladesh. In 1971, war broke out. east pakistan felt west wasn't representing them in govt or whatever. India conquered East Pakistan and helped it gain independence from west pakistan and east pakistan began to call them selves Bangladesh after that.

I don't know about Nepal or Singapore.
And I believe Kashmir belongs to India. It's our land. We're not gonna give it up. Pak already has their share of kashmir so why do they want ours too? doesn't make sense!!

ishan2003

18-10-2007, 02:10 PM

guys chill its only a forum...why get heated up about it?

Undertaker

18-10-2007, 08:57 PM

Oh yeah....India has had its share too...so why do they want what is Pakistan's...?....doesn't make sense....I can give the same lame reason as you....and also....don't give me history lessons....I know my history....if Pakistan did not form out of India....do you honestly feel that the Muslims would be held with just as much respect as Hindus....?....there could be possibly a situation like Iraq where the Suni's are killing the Shias....those are different segments of a religion....what do u think would happen between two totally opposite religions....?

Jingoism (look it up miss history teacher) is what hurts Pakistan and India....cause both feel that they are better....yet why the hell are both countries fighting when they're is already a settled boundary....?.....how about every country that has seperated from another country go back and join them....?....I'm sure that makes a lot of sense....the only reason why you take the side that you take is because you are just pro-Indian....I may be Paki but you don't see me running around screaming Pakistan zindabad....I could care less about Pakistan....but when people make these kind of stupid decisions and keep fighting over land that's already been settled and in the end...only killing hundreds of innocents....then tell me where the rationality is that....how about you let your whole family die for no reason just so that a pointless struggle can continue....two third world countries that can't even take care of themselves are fighting for more land....that makes a lot of sense......

azn_pryde

19-10-2007, 02:15 AM

hey
im not giving any history lesson to you. i am jst gving my opinion ..im sorry if i hurt u some way..
it probably looks like to you that i gooo yehhh india..but i love pakistan, i have friends here and there...im sorry it makes u feel that way..im not taking sides of india...

this topic only came up because we were discussing it in school..i jst my views..i didnt learn the other part of what u sed..
now i understand..and i agree

Undertaker

19-10-2007, 04:14 AM

This is a debate topic....and I'm just good at debating....I'm not hating you or anything.....geez.....just putting my opinion out there too....

fantasticguy

19-10-2007, 06:04 AM

as far as i knw.. india isnt taking up the land..its just defending the ones..which r considered as boundary...pakistan got POK ...i guess the real problem here r the jihadis..which shuld be taken care of.. bu both country

EvilMastermind

29-10-2007, 02:10 PM

This is gonna be a very controverisal and possibly offensive topic, so try to keep it under control people.

My opinion.

I feel Pakistan needs to end their dream of having kashmir. Kashmir is a state of India and the people of Kashmir are INDIAN'S. Just because Kashmir contains a muslim majority does not mean it should be under Pakistan. Being Muslim doesnt mean you arent Indian. Muslims in India, ARE Indians. The Kashmiri people ARE Indians!

The state of Quebec in Canada speak french...Does that mean France shud take it oer.

I feel they just need to kill all these kashmiri terrorist groups and Pakistan needs to do something about its army and shyt. Like for real.

Half of the "Muslims" livign in Kashmir are Hindu's who are acting muslim so they don't get killed.

Salam azn_pryde!!!

people of Kashmir are INDIAN'S?

As a native of kashmir, i dont consider myself as an Indian and perhaps never will. I am in a better position to judge how free we are then you and whats best for us. We rather be with Pakistan then the Indians.
Pakistan don't have 800,000 troops in Kashmir. India do have to have 80000 troops in occupied Kashmir to make it part of India. Isnt it?
People who demand 'Azadi' in Indian occupied Kashmir when they shout 'Azaadi' they are locked up or killed in public. India have been raping Kashmir for over fifty years. Elections in Kashmir were hardly fair under India, so stop pointing fingers at Pakistan.

Lets assume that Kashmir becomes part of India, do you have any idea of how muslims are being treated in India?
take a look-->> www . muslimmedianetwork .
com/mmn/?p=496
(just re-arange cuz it says "You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 15 posts or more.")
its called Eye-Opener To Pathetic Status Of Indian Muslims

Only 3.2% of Muslims get subsidized loans
Only 2.1% of Muslim farmers have tractors, while just 1% own hand pumps.
60% muslims in urban areas have never been to schools.
Only 1.2% of Muslims are post-graduates in urban areas.
Only 0.8% of Muslims are graduates.
In some states only 3.2% of muslims are employed in government.
and the list goes on...

Just because Kashmir contains a muslim majority does not mean it should be under Pakistan.
Half of the "Muslims" livign in Kashmir are Hindu's who are acting muslim so they don't get killed.
^^where did you learn that? in school i guess. Do you have any source to back your comment?

You can't create countries based on language, religion, ethnicity etc.

wassalam

Undertaker

29-10-2007, 02:14 PM

I agree with Mr. Fraudia....

azn_pryde

29-10-2007, 07:31 PM

EvilMastermind

29-10-2007, 07:43 PM

tfs

as far as i know..there is a split between pak and india right??

then i think...well my other opinion is that
jst make kashmir independent!!!

the people in kashmir will have a chance to run their own city.

what will pakistani's get or indians get if they take over kashmir?? extra
land, thats it na.

pleasure suneha!

I agree with your opinion! Kashmir should be independent. But the governments of both countries just wont give up. Its a huge issue, even so-called UN has failed to resolve this issue.

And its just not about more land.

azn_pryde

29-10-2007, 07:49 PM

then what is it about??

is it about that if they get the land...it makes them look much more beautiful on the map??

EvilMastermind

29-10-2007, 08:40 PM

Both countries need kashmir to serve their own interests...

India and Pakistan both boast about what they've done for kashmir, they've both just caused pain and misery for people in the valley.
The only reason India is so passionate about being there and making the Kashmiri peoples lives hell is because it is like a needle up Pakistans backside. The thrill of keeping Pakistan annoyed at the issue comforts mosts Indians.
I would say the two countries should forget their past and work towards a friendly future.

fantasticguy

30-10-2007, 05:46 AM

EvilMastermind

30-10-2007, 01:37 PM

It is in the interest of both states to remove hurdles to the normalisation process. Pakistan must end material support for militancy in Kashmir if regional peace is to be assured. Both sides would save the lives of their soldiers and neutralise Pakistani spoilers by agreeing to resolve the dispute over the Siachen Glacier. Above all, they need to end the cycle of mutual recriminations and prove to Kashmiris that they value their welfare over narrow interests. Such an approach would help stabilise a fragile cold peace.

International, in particular U.S., support is essential to sustain and consolidate the normalisation process. The international community should:

press Pakistan to end all material support to the militants in Kashmir, while conditioning its military and non-development assistance on a complete end to cross-LOC infiltration; and
provide technical assistance for monitoring technologies and verification procedures to facilitate an agreement on the Siachen Glacier, where both countries have an interest in disengaging troops but progress is blocked by the lack of trust.
For their part, New Delhi and Islamabad need to:

sustain the normalisation process by stabilising the ceasefire on the LOC through a gradual reduction of troops and by implementing CBMs such as regular meetings between local commanders; and
remove administrative impediments to implementing Kashmir-specific CBMs such as cross-LOC communication and trade links; identify additional measures in consultation with Kashmiri stakeholders on both sides of the LOC and ensure Kashmiri participation in their dialogue process.

how about India pull his 800,000 jawaans outta kashmir?

The people of Kashmir have been fighting for independence for the last fifty years. They are being butchered by the 800,000 Indian soldiers stationed there. Still the Kashmiris have not given up. The UN resolutions on Kashmir have yet to be implemented. The only option that maybe acceptable to all sides is a free Kashmir, else neither country would ever back down in fear of an internal political backlash. Kashmir was never a part of india nor pakistan, it has always been illegaly occupied by both and the UN resolutions ask for a plebicite. This is not a for india or for pakistan issue, its about the people of Kashmir and their desires. The people of Kashmir deserve the right to decide their own destiny, to build their land, to work freely for a living, to practice their religion, to educate their youth, and to live a life without fear, without humiliation, without unlawful incarceration, without daily bloodshed, without daily searches, without discrimination. The people of india and pakistan are peace loving. However, we cannot bury our heads in the sand and ignore the human rights violations. We cannot keep silent over the policies of the indian government with regards to Kashmir. We cannot ignore the killing of Kashmiri youth, we cannot sit silent while the genocide continues, we cannot watch while the kashmiri youth become orphans, we cannot watch the daily abuse of the kashmiris.

Tell me why is india killing hundreds of people in kashmir if kashmir is part of india? why would India kill its own people?

Guess what, even india's bestfriend USA condemns India over Kashmir.

The report cites the Indian Government for violations of principles of human decency and democratic freedom against the people of Occupied Kashmir. [I]The report finds India responsible for torture, kidnapping, extrajudicial killing, rape and use of excessive forces against the Kashmiri people. The State Department once again noted that Indian paramilitary forces have committed significant human rights abuses, particularly in Jammu and Kashmir. The Report noted the Indian Government's responsibility in disrupting the judicial system in Occupied Kashmir. It said that one reason for the disruption was the judicial tolerance of the Government's heavy handed anti-militant tactics. The Report found India guilty of arbitrary arrest and incommunicado detention in Occupied Kashmir. Human rights organisations find that dozens of such killings occur every month. Government of India had admitted that it held 3,023 persons in five detention centers in Jammu and Kashmir. Of these 1,331 were held under the Public Safety Act and 1,692 under the [Indian] Terrorist and Disruptive Activities Act.

HeroNumberOne

31-10-2007, 05:40 AM

EvilMastermind

31-10-2007, 05:52 AM

Are you talking about the Pakistan Occupied Kashmir? Or the Kashmir State - the one which was originally an important centre of Hinduism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism) and later of Buddhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism)?

That Kashmir is an integral part of India. People living in Kashmir are Indians. If they don't like living in India, they are free to leave.

India is a secular state and people of all race, religion and creed have right to practice their religion.

Islam in India is the second-most practiced religion after Hinduism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism). There are approximately 174 million Muslims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim) in India (according to government census 2001), i.e., 12.4% of the population. India has the second largest population of Muslims in the world (the largest being Indonesia).

People! its Azad Kashmir not Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, and im talkin about whole Kashmir.

Again! ur judging and trying to take kashmir on the basis of religion and ethnicity. If that is the case then India should be divided into 100+ countries and Pakistan 10+ countries. As you say Kashmiris r indians then why is india killing its own people?
If kashmir is an impoprtant centre for Hinduism then we muslims should take over Saudi Arabia cuz its our most important centre, that is where Islam originated.

Correction: there r 200 million muslims in India.

fantasticguy

31-10-2007, 06:27 AM

they r not killing anyone....and india do not want to harm ppl .... what the real problem here is the jihadis...which is to be acted upon....wht i said before is the truth..and unless its followed...there wont be any solution...and the present situation in kashmir is much better then wht it was before... btw he said in 2001 ...the count has increased now....India is against terror..its not against targetting any particular religion....nor they want to... all the world knws... india is the messanger of peace

fantasticguy

31-10-2007, 06:36 AM

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/basicfacts/basics.html

EvilMastermind

31-10-2007, 02:09 PM

EvilMastermind

31-10-2007, 02:19 PM

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/basicfacts/basics.html

http://www.ishipress.com/kashmir.htm

fantasticguy

31-10-2007, 03:58 PM

im not here to give definations or anything....im a peace loving person like u all r ....wht i want is everything to stop...and we all can't do much abt it...we all can hope and pray to god that...something good happens sooner...and both countries will understand...and decide on something..which is in favour of ppl in kashmir..and they can have a better and peaceful life ahead....let us all pray for the same....

EvilMastermind

31-10-2007, 07:00 PM

kewl!

God bless india, pakistan, kashmir, china, etc

Rubz

31-10-2007, 10:31 PM

this was very interesting reading..
but its too much information..

sooo make it clear.. what exactly is this problem about then??/
im proper confused.. i thought it was land at first..

ma point is.. why cant people (countries e.g.) mind their OWN business rather than interfer for another state or whatever? i mean whatever.. let pakistan deal with their own problems in their own countries.. n let india deal with their own country problems.. rather than fighting over Kashmir and just give independant and then let Kashmir deal with their own problems..

everyone lives would be so much better if they all cud have their own decision.. theres noo neeed for another country to interfer in everything..
i personally say that pakistan and india shud mind their own business within their countries rather than fight over Kashmir..
it just sounds soo stupidd fighting over another place.. when they cant seem to solve problems within their own countries.. solve ur country problem then think about another one..

dis didnt make much sense did it? am saying i dunno.. butt yeah.. dats what i say... mind ur own country problems before interfering with another..
say da same about England.. if u have solutions for ur own country.. theyy show offf for another country/state/land whatever u wanna call it..

but personally.. da government is just CORRUPTT and blinded about POWER and MONEY!!

i never would ever in ma damn life go into government.. if anyone paid me a trilllion poundsss.. hell nooo!!!

azn_pryde

01-11-2007, 12:30 AM

true true...

HeroNumberOne

01-11-2007, 01:11 AM

People! its Azad Kashmir not Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, and im talkin about whole Kashmir.

Again! ur judging and trying to take kashmir on the basis of religion and ethnicity. If that is the case then India should be divided into 100+ countries and Pakistan 10+ countries. As you say Kashmiris r indians then why is india killing its own people?
If kashmir is an impoprtant centre for Hinduism then we muslims should take over Saudi Arabia cuz its our most important centre, that is where Islam originated.

Correction: there r 200 million muslims in India.

Is Azad Kashmir same as Pakistan Administered Kashmir?

India's poulation is 1,129,866,154 and 13.4% of the population is Muslim. So that makes it ummm.... 151,402,065, I think :p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India

Not sure if I understand your logic about taking over Saudi? How do you exactly propose to do that? :p If you can convince me, I might allow you to do that. :p

azn_pryde

01-11-2007, 01:17 AM

lol...
i wouldnt use wikipedia as a supporting source..that website is very baised and is written by obviously biased people

HeroNumberOne

01-11-2007, 02:00 AM

lol...
i wouldnt use wikipedia as a supporting source..that website is very baised and is written by obviously biased people
acha acha I won't then. Kya use karoon phir? Andy soching :p

azn_pryde

01-11-2007, 02:47 AM

andy soch soch
hmmmm

EvilMastermind

01-11-2007, 05:09 AM

i never would ever in ma damn life go into government.. if anyone paid me a trilllion poundsss.. hell nooo!!!

stop kidding ruby :p

EvilMastermind

01-11-2007, 05:32 AM

Is Azad Kashmir same as Pakistan Administered Kashmir?

Bhai sahab! i've relatives living in kashmir, they are in so-called POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) aka Azad kashmir and they are very azaad, free what to do, they have full rights. Unlike in Jammu & Kashmir aka IOK (Indian Occupied Kashmir) where a kid shouts "azaadi" and is killed, where Indian soldiers are torturing innocent humans.

India's poulation is 1,129,866,154 and 13.4% of the population is Muslim. So that makes it ummm.... 151,402,065, I think :p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India

and since you have so much belief in "wikipedia", im gonna give you references from it.

India has the 3rd largest muslim population, after Indonesia and Pakistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth_in_India

% of Muslims in India is 20%
www.islamicpopulation.com/india_muslim.html

Not sure if I understand your logic about taking over Saudi? How do you exactly propose to do that? If you can convince me, I might allow you to do that.

cuz you said Kashmir has more muslim population so it should be merged with India, but wikipedia said itself that India has the 3rd largest muslim population after Indonesia and Pakistan. Im saying this for the third time, countries cannot be created the basis of religion. Saudi Arabia is the main centre, should all we muslims move back there?

Anyways! i thought me and fantastic guy has already freed kashmir. :)

EvilMastermind

01-11-2007, 05:36 AM

lol...
i wouldnt use wikipedia as a supporting source..that website is very baised and is written by obviously biased people

ditto!!! where the smilies to show that i agree with u.

Rubz

01-11-2007, 11:34 AM

lol

okayy put it like this...
2 years i NEARLY picked up Government and Politics to study for ma A Levels.. and ma friends nearly KILLEDD ME!

she goess.. u dareee going into dattt and il kill ya..

yah i admittt i was pretty interested..
but am glad i didnt take it any further.. even todayy am still interested.. ill read n research stufff for ma own sakes.. but ill never actually go into it lol

HeroNumberOne

01-11-2007, 01:35 PM

Bhai sahab! i've relatives living in kashmir, they are in so-called POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) aka Azad kashmir and they are very azaad, free what to do, they have full rights. Unlike in Jammu & Kashmir aka IOK (Indian Occupied Kashmir) where a kid shouts "azaadi" and is killed, where Indian soldiers are torturing innocent humans.

and since you have so much belief in "wikipedia", im gonna give you references from it.

India has the 3rd largest muslim population, after Indonesia and Pakistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth_in_India

% of Muslims in India is 20%
www.islamicpopulation.com/india_muslim.html (http://www.islamicpopulation.com/india_muslim.html)

cuz you said Kashmir has more muslim population so it should be merged with India, but wikipedia said itself that India has the 3rd largest muslim population after Indonesia and Pakistan. Im saying this for the third time, countries cannot be created the basis of religion. Saudi Arabia is the main centre, should all we muslims move back there?

Anyways! i thought me and fantastic guy has already freed kashmir. :)

It was a simple question yaar. Are the two (Azad Kashmir and Pakistan Administered Kashmir) the same or different places?

So you saying that Pakistan is more democratic than India? More secular than India. Has had Hindu President, currently has Hindu Vice President? Oh ok. I did not know that. Hmmmm.

I still don't understand your logic about Saudi Arabia. Leave those peace loving Saudis alone na. Else, Osama aa jaye ga!!!!! :p

HeroNumberOne

01-11-2007, 01:40 PM

andy soch soch
hmmmm
soching na

EvilMastermind

01-11-2007, 02:53 PM

EvilMastermind

01-11-2007, 03:06 PM

It was a simple question yaar. Are the two (Azad Kashmir and Pakistan Administered Kashmir) the same or different places?

So you saying that Pakistan is more democratic than India? More secular than India. Has had Hindu President, currently has Hindu Vice President? Oh ok. I did not know that. Hmmmm.

I still don't understand your logic about Saudi Arabia. Leave those peace loving Saudis alone na. Else, Osama aa jaye ga!!!!! :p

they are the same places.

Did i talk about democracy? i proved your statistics wrong thats all. Yea yea yea i know india is world's biggest democracy, etc, but we aint talking about india or pakistan, we are trying to resolve kashmir issue (which will neva be resolved).

Maybe u'll understand my logic this time, bangladesh has bangalis, should'nt it merged with west bangal (state of india)? Cuz u want kashmir to be part of india cuz it has a huge muslim population.

HeroNumberOne

01-11-2007, 08:06 PM

I think I won. My posts were better. :tongwink:

EvilMastermind

01-11-2007, 08:27 PM

lol! let God judge and members over here decide...

btw this thread is so much like the he-man episode where he-man and skeletor joined forces to fight off the funky dinosaur-dragon critter.

Rubz

01-11-2007, 10:37 PM

so u changed your career just cuz of your friend? peer pressure. lolz

i dont like politics too, too much stress.

I BURST OUT LAUGHING AT THAT!!

Ahahahaha I am one person who has NEVER given in to Peer Pressure!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I said NEARLY... I nearly did.. But my friend said she'll kill me.. But HELLO she really wouldnt.. what kill me for taking a course????:rolleyes:

N dat govern n politics was justt wud have been a timepass course if i took it.. coz i dont intend to go into government at all.. dats not where i want to go.. i wanna go into business management..
so noo i didnt change careers for peer pressure..
plus am one person who CANNOT be influenced by ANYTHING...
i do everything only MY way lool :teeth_smi

azn_pryde

01-11-2007, 11:54 PM

ditto!!! where the smilies to show that i agree with u.

some smilies =P > > :thumbs_up:teeth_smi:40::60::35:

azn_pryde

01-11-2007, 11:54 PM

soching na

soch soch soch soch :tongwink:

EvilMastermind

02-11-2007, 05:11 AM

I BURST OUT LAUGHING AT THAT!!

Ahahahaha I am one person who has NEVER given in to Peer Pressure!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I said NEARLY... I nearly did.. But my friend said she'll kill me.. But HELLO she really wouldnt.. what kill me for taking a course????:rolleyes:

N dat govern n politics was justt wud have been a timepass course if i took it.. coz i dont intend to go into government at all.. dats not where i want to go.. i wanna go into business management..
so noo i didnt change careers for peer pressure..
plus am one person who CANNOT be influenced by ANYTHING...
i do everything only MY way lool :teeth_smi

so basically u were scared of ur friend, rite?

Business is dangerous too, its the survival of the fittest. who is ur role model?

EvilMastermind

02-11-2007, 05:15 AM

some smilies =P > > :thumbs_up:teeth_smi:40::60::35:

yehhhh :thumbs_up :tounge_sm :rose:

Rubz

02-11-2007, 04:45 PM

so basically u were scared of ur friend, rite?

Business is dangerous too, its the survival of the fittest. who is ur role model?

Ur nuts lol!!

Nah I couldn't choose it.. Becoz It wouldn't even fit in my timetable.

LOOOL DONT HAVE ONE.. I dunno. Been wanting to go into Business for a while..

I know everyone makes Business sound dangerous lol.

EvilMastermind

02-11-2007, 07:48 PM

Ur nuts lol!!

Nah I couldn't choose it.. Becoz It wouldn't even fit in my timetable.

LOOOL DONT HAVE ONE.. I dunno. Been wanting to go into Business for a while..

I know everyone makes Business sound dangerous lol.

Business is dangerous for u, u should consider becoming an accountant or a teacher, even nurse would do.

HeroNumberOne

02-11-2007, 07:54 PM

soch soch soch soch :tongwink:
Only 4 times? :p

Rubz

02-11-2007, 11:00 PM

A NURSE???
first.. i cannot look at needle and blood without feeling am going to faint..
accountant... like i can deal with numbers... am stuck on my business work atm coz of the number part..
teacher.. one my teacher last year said to me.. NEVER MAKE THE MISTAKE OF BECOMING A TEACHER.. n shes right.. i never wanna become a teacher anyways.. always thought no way i can do dat.. but i wouldnt mind kids.. but i just dont wanna be anything like teacher.. like nowayy.. its not for me..

azn_pryde

02-11-2007, 11:04 PM

Only 4 times? :p
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooocccccc cccccccccccccccc
ccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Aaliyah~

03-11-2007, 03:40 PM

wow
a debate!
i hope i'm not too late.
(can't belive i missed this!):omg_smile

OK to start with :
the topic was started with on a much bias note, so the comment about Pakistan needs to end their dream of having kashmir is totally out of order.
who is saying this?
India? or U?
i can go ahead and accuse India of the same.
Kashmir is a state of India and the people of Kashmir are INDIAN'S.

how indian do the Kashmiris feel is upto them to decide u cannot force them to be Patriotic, as far as i'm aware Kashmiris feel equally let down by India as they are bothered by Pakistan.
i personally don't feel either India nor Pakistan have Kashmirs best interest in mind, instaead they are trying to pull one over each other while Kashmir gets pulled from both sides.

this debate has been well argued but its interesting to see ppl either speaking from either an Indian or Pakistani point-of-view instaed of Kashmirs' perspective.

i'm much in Agreement with Fraudia and Mubeen on this one,
lol
I laughed readin Mubeens comment at the beginning of the topic, that would so have been my reaction too,
all this crap about how Indians feel that Kashmir is rightfully theirs...:rolleyes:
pulease, my parents are Indian too and they feel quite rightly that the issue is not what either Pakistan or India want, but what the citizens of Kashmir wants.

Aaliyah~

03-11-2007, 03:43 PM

Half of the "Muslims" livign in Kashmir are Hindu's who are acting muslim so they don't get killed.

oh really?
and thats not an excuse fabricated by India to justify having their troops there?

EvilMastermind

04-11-2007, 07:20 PM

^bravo!
great minds think alike...... u know the rest....

HeroNumberOne

07-11-2007, 04:32 AM

ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooocccccc cccccccccccccccc
ccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
your ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss made me go to the wash room

azn_pryde

07-11-2007, 05:28 AM

:sarcastic

Aaliyah~

07-11-2007, 02:46 PM

your ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss made me go to the wash room

:confused:

coolest_gal

07-11-2007, 04:43 PM

your ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss made me go to the wash room
:rolleyes: :thinking: :whatchuta :confused: :thinking2

Rubz

07-11-2007, 11:13 PM

okies okies stop..

nicelyy saidd aaliyah...

well yeh.. i just said it straight that both sides are just greeedyyy...

let kashmiris decide what they want.. stop being a bully lol..

i just felt like sayin dat
im off 2 bed.. nytyyy nytttt

azn_pryde

09-11-2007, 04:01 AM

andy tum pagal ho...lol :D

HeroNumberOne

09-11-2007, 04:01 AM

Andy's Final Decision - Kashmir to continue to remain an integral part of India as one of its sovereign states. All Kashmirs (Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Jews, Jains, Buddhists, etc.) have right to live peacefully there !!!! :teeth_smi

EvilMastermind

09-11-2007, 09:46 AM

Andy's Final Decision

....and Fraudia's Final Response:

Kashmir to continue to remain an integral part of India as one of its sovereign states. All Kashmirs (Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Jews, Jains, Buddhists, etc.) have right to live peacefully there !!!! :teeth_smi

Typical concerns of a typical mindset.
Yaar political science main PhD kar rahe ho kya? reference to cite kar diya karo.
Kashmir should be independent but given the pride of both nations, neither side will accept a deal that allows the other to keep so much as an inch of Kashmir. Kashmiris are in pain and are suffering under indian government, the who world is watching. If the feelings of Millions on Muslims in the Kashmir is ignored or overlooked by Delhi, why are the voices of minority hindus so improtant all of the sudden?
Kashmir has a majority muslim population, a dogra ruler who no one in kashmir recognised signed over to join India and India jumps to claim Kashmir. What happened to what the majority want? Where did India's (world's biggest) democracy go?
Now understand this, The kashmiri muslims are the overwhelming majority and what they want should be that. The hindus are a minority and they will have to live with that whilst being protected by a kashmiri constitution, which can only happen if kashmir is made independant. INDIA IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF THE PROBLEM. India has never been welcomed in the Valley, It can not solve anything by staying in the Valley (Kashmir). The kashmiri muslims have always suffered more than kashmiri hindus, just compare the numbers, the muslims overall have suffered more. Hindus moved out of the Valley into Jammu as they felt safer in a majority hindu surrounding. Muslims on the other hand cant even move due to their lack of trust of Indians.The indian army moved into Kashmir in 1948 when the militants were close to the Valley. They have been there since, increasing in numbers. 99.9% of Indians are clueless about kashmiris and have no idea about what goes on in the valley. Yet they run their mouths off passionatly about Kashmir without knowing any facts. The truth is that NO Indian gives a damn about kashmir really, the only reason they are so passionate about being there and making the Kashmiri peoples lives hell is because it is like a needle up Pakistans backside. The thrill of keeping Pakistan annoyed at the issue comforts mosts Indians. And that is a FACT, dont even try to deny it. Indians use the pundits and lame excuses to simply deny the rest of the 7 million Kashmiris their rights. The Pundit issue just seems like a tool for India to delay a resolution to the issue and throw a wrench into the works. Whenver the question of letting Kashmiris decide comes up... We cant let them decide, because then how would you figure in the Pandits! Seems like a rather lame excuse.
In Kahmir you can be thrown in prison for having a map that doesnt show Kashmir as a part of India. And God forbid any Indian ever question India's stand on Kashmir. They would automatically be termed as a traitor. If its a Muslim, he will probably killed by a mob. Freedom in India is only for those who follow the state line. You guys are just upset that despite over ten years of murder, rape, and mysterious dissapearances, you still have't queled the Kashmiri uprising. My heart goes out to kashmir for being in a terrible state its in - but you have to realize the solution will be based on economical and political strategies.

Bottom Line is: Nothing's gonna happen...the same situation will continue....

Ask an Indian, he'll tell you that kashmir should become part of india
Ask a Pakistani, he'll tell you that kashmir should become part of Pakistan.
But no one asks a kashmiri, their voices are not even heard, this is what u call, "freedom of speech" in jammu & kashmir.

I think I won. My posts were better. :tongwink:

now u tell me who won.

Rubz

10-11-2007, 12:30 AM

these debates are very good... but how does ur lots brain actual digest that much information??

honestly.. all i can tink of saying is what i said above *stop being greedy*

theres people out there whose brain can take alot of information abt stuff like this lol!!

how long do u research lol?

EvilMastermind

10-11-2007, 02:01 PM

HeroNumberOne

10-11-2007, 04:37 PM

....and Fraudia's Final Response:

Typical concerns of a typical mindset.
Yaar political science main PhD kar rahe ho kya? reference to cite kar diya karo.
Kashmir should be independent but given the pride of both nations, neither side will accept a deal that allows the other to keep so much as an inch of Kashmir. Kashmiris are in pain and are suffering under indian government, the who world is watching. If the feelings of Millions on Muslims in the Kashmir is ignored or overlooked by Delhi, why are the voices of minority hindus so improtant all of the sudden?
Kashmir has a majority muslim population, a dogra ruler who no one in kashmir recognised signed over to join India and India jumps to claim Kashmir. What happened to what the majority want? Where did India's (world's biggest) democracy go?
Now understand this, The kashmiri muslims are the overwhelming majority and what they want should be that. The hindus are a minority and they will have to live with that whilst being protected by a kashmiri constitution, which can only happen if kashmir is made independant. INDIA IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF THE PROBLEM. India has never been welcomed in the Valley, It can not solve anything by staying in the Valley (Kashmir). The kashmiri muslims have always suffered more than kashmiri hindus, just compare the numbers, the muslims overall have suffered more. Hindus moved out of the Valley into Jammu as they felt safer in a majority hindu surrounding. Muslims on the other hand cant even move due to their lack of trust of Indians.The indian army moved into Kashmir in 1948 when the militants were close to the Valley. They have been there since, increasing in numbers. 99.9% of Indians are clueless about kashmiris and have no idea about what goes on in the valley. Yet they run their mouths off passionatly about Kashmir without knowing any facts. The truth is that NO Indian gives a damn about kashmir really, the only reason they are so passionate about being there and making the Kashmiri peoples lives hell is because it is like a needle up Pakistans backside. The thrill of keeping Pakistan annoyed at the issue comforts mosts Indians. And that is a FACT, dont even try to deny it. Indians use the pundits and lame excuses to simply deny the rest of the 7 million Kashmiris their rights. The Pundit issue just seems like a tool for India to delay a resolution to the issue and throw a wrench into the works. Whenver the question of letting Kashmiris decide comes up... We cant let them decide, because then how would you figure in the Pandits! Seems like a rather lame excuse.
In Kahmir you can be thrown in prison for having a map that doesnt show Kashmir as a part of India. And God forbid any Indian ever question India's stand on Kashmir. They would automatically be termed as a traitor. If its a Muslim, he will probably killed by a mob. Freedom in India is only for those who follow the state line. You guys are just upset that despite over ten years of murder, rape, and mysterious dissapearances, you still have't queled the Kashmiri uprising. My heart goes out to kashmir for being in a terrible state its in - but you have to realize the solution will be based on economical and political strategies.

Bottom Line is: Nothing's gonna happen...the same situation will continue....

Ask an Indian, he'll tell you that kashmir should become part of india
Ask a Pakistani, he'll tell you that kashmir should become part of Pakistan.
But no one asks a kashmiri, their voices are not even heard, this is what u call, "freedom of speech" in jammu & kashmir.

now u tell me who won.
actually, before i discussed with you on this topic, i should have asked you about your nationality. you indian?

azn_pryde

10-11-2007, 04:48 PM

oh btw drinking milk n eating almonds does help ;)

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
thats what im doing now

:D

Aaliyah~

10-11-2007, 05:34 PM

actually, before i discussed with you on this topic, i should have asked you about your nationality. you indian?

i don't mean to interrupt, but that should be the last thing of concern, in order to have an objective debate.
why does it matter if u r Indian or Pakistani, as said before the issue concerns Kashmiris.
the reasoning behind it should be whats best for them, right?

EvilMastermind

10-11-2007, 07:06 PM

actually, before i discussed with you on this topic, i should have asked you about your nationality. you indian?

humanity!!!!!

EvilMastermind

10-11-2007, 07:07 PM

i don't mean to interrupt, but that should be the last thing of concern, in order to have an objective debate.
why does it matter if u r Indian or Pakistani, as said before the issue concerns Kashmiris.
the reasoning behind it should be whats best for them, right?

exactly Aaliyah! :thumbs_up

i could'nt have said it any better...........

EvilMastermind

10-11-2007, 07:09 PM

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
thats what im doing now

:D

good good! so we're waiting for ur next debate :wink_smil

azn_pryde

10-11-2007, 07:19 PM

actually, before i discussed with you on this topic, i should have asked you about your nationality. you indian?

its not the question about nationality...we must all think as one. We are future generation and we know much better than the government.
We should think as we are all one, we are all alike, we are humans. I know im indian but it does not mean i think whatever the indian gov does is right. They are all conservative, whatever they do is jst for media attention.

Rubz

11-11-2007, 12:12 AM

lolz ruby! it depends on the debate, all you have to do is to go with the flow and put ur comment/info in a decent way, information just keeps coming to your mind. I dunno how to explain. :p

oh btw drinking milk n eating almonds does help ;)

i cant.. well it justt i dont have the patient to make mega long posts about anything anything except NATHAN and about myself lol.. ma day.. ma journal is full of that.. other than that i seem to not have the patient 2 make it very long...

n dat ma biggest problem.. i HATE MILK.. i can have it with cereal and tea but other than that i hate it..

dats why everyone says am soo shortt.. i never drank milk when i was youngeer i avoided as much as i cud lol..

EvilMastermind

11-11-2007, 05:52 AM

so are u allergic to dairy products?

and i always wanted to ask u this, who is Nathan?

HeroNumberOne

12-11-2007, 05:52 AM

humanity!!!!!
Indian or not? If not, then keep out of India. And why does your heart bleed for Kashmiri muslims only? How about the other Indian muslims? How are they different? So if Kashmir no longer remains a part of India (becoz apparently, muslims there are being treated badly by New Delhi), what happens to the rest of the muslims in India????

EvilMastermind

12-11-2007, 11:00 AM

Indian or not? If not, then keep out of India.
Are you a kashmiri? If not, then keep out of kashmir.

And why does your heart bleed for Kashmiri muslims only?
My heart bleeds for every human, every nation under oppression. Whether they are jews of germany or muslims of iraq, chinese of tibet or christians of chechnya. But since this debate is concerning kashmir i wanna dicuss kashmir only.

How about the other Indian muslims? How are they different? So if Kashmir no longer remains a part of India (becoz apparently, muslims there are being treated badly by New Delhi), what happens to the rest of the muslims in India????
Lemme quote my very first post on this forum

Lets assume that Kashmir becomes part of India, do you have any idea of how muslims are being treated in India?
take a look-->> www.muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=496

its called Eye-Opener To Pathetic Status Of Indian Muslims

Only 3.2% of Muslims get subsidized loans
Only 2.1% of Muslim farmers have tractors, while just 1% own hand pumps.
60% muslims in urban areas have never been to schools.
Only 1.2% of Muslims are post-graduates in urban areas.
Only 0.8% of Muslims are graduates.
In some states only 3.2% of muslims are employed in government.
and the list goes on...

Im very much concerned about Indian muslims as well but just dont wanna go off-topic since our main concern is Kashmir, not India.

what happens to the rest of the muslims in India????
Thats upto indian government, india, pakistan and even china illegally occupied kashmir just like isreal illegally occupied palestine. However! muslims in india are pretty much happy, cuz india did'nt illegally occupied its own 28 states. So the rest of the muslims in india live happily there after................