Allaah says in His Book (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) when ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allaah unto you, confirming the Tawraat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.’ But when he (Ahmad, i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said: ‘This is plain magic’”
[al-Saff 61:6]
“Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)— he commands them for Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khabaa’ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allaah’s Covenant with the children of Israel), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Qur’aan) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful”
[al-A’raaf 7:157]
These two verses indicate that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel (the Bible), no matter how much the Jews and Christians claim that he is not, for the word of Allaah is the best and most truthful of words.
Some of the things mentioned in the previous Books are as follows:
1 – In the Torah, in the Book of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 it says:
“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.”
(New International Version)
This text is still extant among them. With regard to the phrase “from among their brothers” – if that prophet were to be from among the Children of Israel, it would have said, “I will raise up for them a prophet from among them.” But it says “from among their brothers” – i.e., from among the sons of Ismaa’eel (Ishamel).
Secondly, it says in the Gospel of John 16:6-8, 12-13:
“It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor [Paraclete] will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin…
I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”
(New International Version)
This cannot apply to anyone except the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
Secondly: Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It says in the Torah, in the fifth book [Deuteronomy 33:2]:
“The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes [or: from his right hand went a fiery law for them].”
(New International Version; alternative version of last phrase – the meaning of which is unclear in the original Hebrew texts – is from the King James Version)
This refers to the three Prophethoods: the Prophethood of Moosa (Moses), the Prophethood of ‘Eesa (Jesus) and the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). “Coming from Sinai” refers to the mountain where Allaah spoke to Moosa and called him and told him he was a Prophet. “Dawning over them from Seir” refers to the appearance of the Messiah from Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem). Seir is a village that is still known there to this day. So this was a foretelling of the Prophethood of the Messiah.
“Paran” refers to Makkah. Allaah likens the Prophethood of Moosa to the coming of the dawn, and the Prophethood of the Messiah after him to the rising of the sun, and the Prophethood of the Seal of the Prophets to the sun rising high in the sky and its light reaching all over the earth. And it came to pass exactly as foretold, for Allaah dispelled the night of kufr with the Prophethood of Moosa, and the light increased with the Prophethood of the Messiah, and was completed and reached everywhere on earth with the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). These three Prophets who were mentioned in this foretelling were also mentioned in the beginning of Soorat al-Teen (interpretation of the meaning):
“By the fig, and the olive.
2. By Mount Sinai.
3. By this city of security (Makkah)”
[al-Teen 95:1-3]
End quote. See Hidaayat al-Hayaara, p. 110; and Ibn al-Qayyim’s comments on the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 33:1.
Fourthly: Shaykh ‘Abd al-Majeed al-Zandaani said in his book al-Bishaaraat bi Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fi’l-Kutub al-Samawiyyah al-Saabiqah that in the 22nd chapter of the Gospel of Barnabas it says:
“And this will continue until there comes Muhammad the Messenger of God who, when he comes, will expose this deceit to those who believe in the laws of God.”
And it says in the Book of Isaiah:
“I have made your name Muhammad O Muhammad, O beloved of the Lord, your name will abide forever.”
And it says in the Book of Isaiah:
“What I have given to him I will not give to anyone else: Ahmad, because he praises God and this praise comes from the best part of the earth, and this will bring joy to mankind and they will recite the word of divine unity on every hill and glorify God in every high place.”
Many scholars have mentioned the places in the Bible where the name of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is mentioned. Sometimes his name is mentioned clearly, and sometimes he is described in ways that can only apply to him (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
You should note that the books of the Bible as they exist today have been altered and changed. This fact has been stated by non-Muslim historians, but despite all that we still find in the Bible the foretelling of the coming of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Shaykh Rahmat-Allaah al-Hindi stated that every time the Christians were able to change something they did so, hence you will find that some of the ancient scholars quote passages from the Bible that no longer exist. But there are still other passages that foretell the Prophethood of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his coming.
It should be noted that we have to arm ourselves with adequate sound knowledge in order to debate with the Christians, because even if they have no proof, they will still try to sow the seeds of doubt in people’s hearts so that they will give in to these wrong ideas and so that the truth will be concealed. “But Allaah will bring His Light to perfection even though the disbelievers hate (it)” [al-Saff 61:8 – interpretation of the meaning].
Some of the most useful books on this topic are: Izhaar al-Haqq by Shaykh Rahmat-Allaah al-Hindi; Kitaab Hidaayat al-Hayaara by Ibn Al-Qayyim; and al-Jawaab al-Saheeh by Ibn Taymiyyah. And Allaah knows best.
dalijeet89
28-09-2006, 06:11 AM
A Prophet like Moses
Deuteronomy 18:18-19
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
There are a number of ways in which Moses was like Jesus, but unlike Muhammad:
Moses had no known tomb, but died on Mount Nebo (Deut. 34:6).
Moses came out of Egypt at the Exodus, and Jesus went to Egypt as a baby and returned.
Moses was brought up by his mother as a nurse in Pharaoh's household, and Jesus was brought up by Mary, but Muhammad was an orphan. Moses was saved as a baby in the rushes; Jesus was saved when God told Joseph to take him to Egypt.
Moses was transfigured on Mt. Sinai (Exodus 34:29) and Jesus was transfigured in Matthew 17:1-6.
Moses offered to take the sins of Israel on himself in Exodus 32:30-32; Jesus was sacrificed for the sins of mankind.
Even at this level of argument there are more points of similarity between Jesus and Moses than there are between Muhammad and Moses. Not only that, but some of the points where Jesus seems to be different from Moses only appear because the Moslems have not considered the whole of the life of Jesus. For example, Jesus was rejected by his people and has not been accepted by them yet. But the time will come when they will look on him whom they have pierced (Zech. 12:10) and God will cleanse them (Ezek. 36:26-31). Similarly, Jesus will become a national leader and will encounter his enemies in battle (Zech. 14:3).
In Deuteronomy 18:18 God tells Moses to inform Israel that the prophet was to be from among their brethren, which means that he would have to be an Israelite. Moslems who dispute this assert that, as the Arabs are the brothers of the Jews, this refers to an Arab. However, there is no scriptural evidence to support this. The Arabs are never called the brethren of the Jews in the Bible. There are a few verses where Edom is described as the brother (singular) of Israel (e.g. Num. 20:14; Deut. 23:7; Amos 1:11), but the word brethren (plural) is never used. In any case, Muhammad is not a descendent of Edom (who joined the Jews in the second century BC), but of Ishmael, who is never referred to as the brother of Israel. The passage can only mean that the prophet like unto Moses was to be an Israelite.
To list the similarities and differences between Jesus, Muhammad and Moses is a rather inconclusive and man-made way of looking at Deuteronomy 18. Rather than humans making lists of ways that Muhammad is, or is not, like Moses, it is better to let the passage itself say in what way the prophet will be like Moses. This is given us in the next two verses:
"And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." (Deut. 18:21-22)
The prophet would validate his message by some sign, either a miracle or a prediction of the future which he would predict or announce and which would then be fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus worked miracles; even the Qur'an admits this (e.g. Q 5:115). However, Muhammad never performed a miracle and the set of predictions claimed for him is singularly unimpressive (he is said to have predicted that his followers would win the battle of Badr - probably a method of encouraging them to fight more fiercely, and self fulfilling as one would never of heard of the prediction if the battle had been lost). The lack of signs from Muhammad is also commented upon in the Qur'an with words like: "They say: Why not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" (Q 10:20; see also Q 6:109; Q 13:7; Q 17:59; Q 21:5,6). There is only one reason that the Qur'an would record passages like these, and that is because Muhammad never gave a prophecy or performed a miracle.
Moslems cannot have things both ways. Either the passage in Deuteronomy 18 is from God, in which case they must believe it and reject Muhammad because he does not fulfill scripture, or it is not from God, in which case they cannot claim it as a prediction of Muhammad.
Deuteronomy 18:18 is cited in Acts 3:22. Here the apostle Peter, speaking words from God through the Holy Spirit, identifies the prophet like Moses as being Jesus Christ and not Muhammad.
poisonIVY
28-09-2006, 09:12 AM
Listen dalifeet . whatever fug ur name is
that didnt make sense!
Do you even REAd my postS?
thats it no more posts for you :Not_Impre
burn in fire
:16:
dalijeet89
28-09-2006, 10:51 AM
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! LMFAO!!! WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! THAT EXPLAINED IT! MUHAMMED IS NOT IN THE BIBLE (EXCEPT IN Matt. 24:24). IF YOU READ MY POST ENTIRELY YOU WOULD HAVE REALIZED THIS! YOU SAY THAT THE BIBLE IS CORRUPT AND NOT THE WORD OF GOD. LET ME QUOTE FROM MY POST: "Moslems cannot have things both ways. Either the passage in Deuteronomy 18 is from God, in which case they must believe it and reject Muhammad because he does not fulfill scripture, or it is not from God, in which case they cannot claim it as a prediction of Muhammad."
MUHAMMED IS NOT FOUND IN THE BIBLE! (EXCEPT IN MATT 24:24) READ IT ON YOUR OWN! IT MADE ENTIRE SENSE YOU SAID MUHAMMED IS IN THE BIBLE! NO HE IS NOT! FOR YOUR INTERPRETATION IT IS! BUT IT HAS BEEN EITHER MOSES OR JESUS CHRIST WHO FULFILLED THESE VERSES.
poisonIVY
28-09-2006, 10:59 AM
enough bitch ....now read my post carefully !
Bible prophecies about the advent of muhammad
Abraham is widely regarded as the Patriarch of monotheism and the common father of the Jews, Christians and Muslims. Through his second son, Isaac, came all Israelite prophet including such towering figures as Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Solomon and Jesus. May peace and blessing be upon them all. The advent of these great prophets was in partial fulfillment of God’s promises to bless the nations of earth through the descendents of Abraham (Genesis 12:2-3). Such fulfillment is wholeheartedly accepted by Muslims whose faith considers the belief in and respect of all prophets an article of faith.
BLESSING OF ISHMAEL AND ISAAC
Was the first born son of Abraham (Ishmael) and his descendants icluded in God’s covenant and promise? A few verses from the Bible may help shed some light on this question :
Genesis 12:2-3 speaks of God’s promise to Abraham and his descendants before any child was born to him.
Genesis 17:4 reiterates God’s promise after the birth of Ishmael and before the birth of Isaac.
In Genesis, ch.21. Isaac is specifically blessed but Ishmael was also specifically blessed and promised by God to become “ a great nation” especially in Genesis 21:13, 18.
According to Deuteronomy 21:15-17 the traditional rights and privileges of the first born son are not to be affected by the social status of his mother (being a ‘free’ woman such as Sarah, Isaac’s mother, or a “Bondwoman” such as Hagar, Ishmael’s mother). This is only consistent with the moral and humanitarian principles of all revealed faiths.
The full legitimacy of Ismael as Abraham’s son and “seed” and the full legitimacy of his mother, Hagar, as Abraham’s wife are clearly stated in Genesis 21:13 and 16:3.
After Jesus, the last Israelite messenger and prophet, it was time that God’s promise to bless Ismael and his descendants be fulfilled. Less than 600 years after Jesus, came the last messenger of God, Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him) , from the progency of Abraham through Ishmael. God’s blessing of both of the main branches of Abraham’s family tree was now fulfilled. But are there additional corroborating evidence that the Bible did in fact foretell the advent of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him)?
MUHAMMAD (Peace be Upon Him):
The Prophet Like Unto Moses
Long time after Abraham, God’s promise to send the long-awaited Messenger was repeated this time in Moses’ word.
In Deuteronomy 18:18, Moses spoke of the prophet to be sent by God who is :
From among the Israelite’s “brethren” a reference to their Ishmaelite cousins as Ishmael was the other son of Abraham who was explicitly promised to become a “great nation”.
A prophet like unto Moses. There were hardly any two prophets who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad. Both were given comprehensive law code of life, both encountered their enemies and were victors in miraculous ways, both were accepted as prophets/statesmen and both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlooks not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well (e.g. the natural birth, family life and death of Moses and Muhammad but no of Jesus, who was regarded by His followers as the Son of God and not exclusively a messenger of God, as Moses and Muhammad were and as Muslim belief Jesus was).
poisonIVY
28-09-2006, 11:00 AM
THE AWAITED PROPHET WAS TO COME FROM ARABIA
Deuteronomy 33:1-2 combines references to Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. It speaks of God (i.e. God’s revelation) coming from Sinai, rising from Seir (probably the village of Sa’ir near Jerusalem) and shining forth from Paran.
According to Genesis 21:21, the wilder-ness of Paran was the place where Ishmael settled (i.e. Arabia, specifically Mecca).
Indeed the King James version of the Bible mentions the pilgrims passing through the valley of Ba’ca (another name of Mecca) in Psalms 84:4-6.
Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the beloved of God. His elect and messenger who will bring down a law to be awaited in the isles and who “shall not fail nor be discouraged till he have set judgement on earth.” Verse 11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Ke’dar. Who is Ke’dar? According to Genesis 25:13, Ke’dar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the prophet Muhammad.
MUHAMMAD’S MIGRATION FROM MECCA TO MEDINA : PROPHECIED IN THE BIBLE?
Habakkuk 3:3 speaks of God (God’s help) coming from Te’man. (an Oasis North of Medina according to J. Hasting’s Dictionary of the Bible), and the holy one (coming) from Paran. That holy one who under persecution migrated from Paran (Mecca) to be received enthusiastically in Medina was none but prophet Muhammad.
Indeed the incident of the migration of the prophet and his persecuted followers is vividly described in Isaiah 21:13-17. that section forerold as well about the battel of Badr in which the few ill-armed faithfull miraculously defeated the “mighty” men of Ke’dar, who sought to destroy Islam and intimidate their own folks who turned to Islam.
THE QUR’AN (KORAN) FORETOLD IN THE BIBLE?
For twenty-three years, God’s word (the Qur’an) were truely put into Muhammad’s mouth. He was not the “author” of the Qur’an. The Qur’an was dictated to him by Angel Gabriel who asked Muhammad to simply repeat the words of the Qur’an as he heard them. These words were then committed to memory and to writing by those who hear them during Muhammad’s life time and under his supervision.
Was it a coincidence that the prophet “like unto Moses” from the “brethren” of the Israelites (i.e. from the Ishmaelites) was also described as one in whose mouth God will put his words and that he will speak in the name of God., (Duteronomy 18:18-20). Was it also a coincidence the “Paraclete” thet Jesus foretold to come after Him was described as one who “shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.. “(John 16:13).
Was it another coincidence that Isaiah ties between the messenger connected with Ke’dar and a new song (a scripture in a new language) to be sang unto the Lord (Isaiah 42:10-11). More explicitly, prophesies Isaiah “ for with stammering lips, and another tongue, will he speak to this people” (Isaiah 28:11). This latter verse correctly describes the “stammering lips” of Prophet Muhammad reflecting the state of tension and concentration he went through at the time of revelation. Another related point is that the Qur’an was revealed in piece-meals over a span of twenty-three years. It is interisting to compare this with Isaiah 28:10 which speaks of the same thing.
THAT PROPHET – PARACLETE – MUHAMMAD
Up to the time of Jesus, the Israelites were still awaiting for that prophet like unto Moses prophecied in Deuteronomy 18:18. when John the Baptist came, they asked him if he was Christ and he said “No”. they asked him if he was Elias and he said “No”. then, in apparent reference to Deuteronomy 18:18, they asked him “Art thou that Prophet” and he answered, “No”. (John 1:19-21).
In the Gospel according to John (Chapters 14, 15, 16) Jesus spoke of the “ Paraclete” or comporter who will come after him, who will be sent by Father as another Paraclete, who will teach new things which the contemporaries of Jesus could not bear. While the Paraclete is described as the spirit of truth (whose meaning resemble Muhammad’s famous title Al-Amin, the trustworthy), he is identified in one verse as the Holy Ghost (John 14:26). Such a designation is however incosistent with the profile of that Paraclete. In the words of the Dictionary of the Bible, (Ed. J. Mackenzie) “ These items, it must be admitted do not give an entirely coherent picture.”
Indeed history tells us that many early Christians understood the Paraclete to be a man and not a spirit. This might explain the followings who responded to some who claimed, without meeting the criteria stipulated by Jesus, to be the awaited “Paraclete”.
It was Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him) who was the Paraclete, Comforter, helper, admonisher sent by God after Jesus. He testified of Jesus, taught new things which could not be borne at Jesus’ time, he spoke what he heard (revelation), he dwells with the believers (through his well-preserved teachings). Such teachings will remain forever because he was the last messenger of God, the only Universal Messenger to unite the whole of humanity under God and on the path of PRESERVED truth. He told of many things to come which “came to pass” in the minutest detail meeting, the criterion given by Moses to distinguish between the true prophet and the false prophets (Deuteronomy 18:22). He did reprove the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgement (John 16:8-11).
WAS THE SHIFT OF RELIGIUS LEADERSHIP PROPHECIED?
Following the rejection of the last Israelite prophet, Jesus, it was about time that God’s promise to make Ishmael a great nation be fulfilled (Genesis 21:13, 18).
In Matthew 21:19-21, Jesus spoke of the fruitless fig tree (A Biblical symbol of prophetic heritage) to be cleared after being given a last chance of three years (the duration of Jesus’ ministry) to give fruit. In a later verse in the same chapter, Jesus said : “Therefore, say I unto you, the Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and given to nation bringing forth the fruit thereof” (Matthew 21:43). That nation of Ishmael’s descendants (the rejected stone in Matthew 21 :42) which was victorious against all super-powers of its time as prophecied by Jesus : “ And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken, but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder” (Matthew 21:44).
OUT OF CONTEXT COINCIDENCE?
Is it possible that the numerous prophecies cited here are all individually and combined out of contect misinterpretations? is the opposite true, that such infrequently studied verses fit together consistently and clearly point to the advent of the man who changed the course of human history, Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him). Is it reasonable to conclude that all these prophecies, appearing in different books of the Bible and spoken by various prophets at different times were all coinsidence? If this is so here is another strange “coincidence”!
One of the signs of the prophet to come from Paran (Mecca) is that he will come with “ten thousands of saints” (Deuteronomy 33:2 KJV). That was the number of faithful who accompanied Prophet Muhammad to Paran (Mecca) in his victorious, bloodless return to his birthplace, to destroy the remaining symbols of idolatry in the Ka’bah.
Says God as quated by Moses :
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. (Deuteronomy 18:19).
dalijeet89
28-09-2006, 11:05 AM
IF you read my post this is what it says:
Muhammed in not found in the Bible (except Matt 24:24). The verses you have shown me from the BIBLE and the Qur'an are either about MOSES or JESUS CHRIST. Agian let me clarify that MUHAMMED is not found in the Bible! It is upto interpertation but the BIBLE itself does not contain anything about MUHAMMED (MATT 24:24).
"Moslems cannot have things both ways. Either the passage in Deuteronomy 18 is from God, in which case they must believe it and reject Muhammad because he does not fulfill scripture, or it is not from God, in which case they cannot claim it as a prediction of Muhammad."
If you believe this is a verse, from the BIBLE, is about Muhammed then you must believe that the Bible is God's word, since YOU believe it is about Muhammed. If you do not believe in the Bible then the verse has nothing to do with Muhammed.
Let me answer again and tell you that the verses are about MOSES and JESUS CHRIST. NOT MUHAMMED.
dalijeet89
28-09-2006, 11:14 AM
All of these coincidences and context clues and history lecture does not prove MUhammed was in the Bible. Your evidence is upto interpretation.
"Moslems cannot have things both ways. Either the passage in Deuteronomy 18 is from God, in which case they must believe it and reject Muhammad because he does not fulfill scripture, or it is not from God, in which case they cannot claim it as a prediction of Muhammad."
I am going to give you this question "Are Arabs the Descendets of Ishmael?"
I will refute this once i get home from school.
dalijeet89
28-09-2006, 11:41 AM
All Arabs are the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael.
Ishmael and his descendants were included in the covenant God made with Abraham.
Since the Abrahamic convenant included the land of Israel, the Arabs have a legitimate claim to it.
Ten Historical Facts that refute these Arab claims:
According to the Torah, when Abraham left Ur of the Chaldees, he went West to what is now called Israel (Gen. 12 ff.). He became a dweller in tents in that land. It was in Israel that God made a covenant with him for the land in which he was living at that time. It was in Israel that he fathered Isaac, Ishmael, and many other sons and daughters. Isaac was the only son of Abraham chosen by God to be the heir of the covenant. Abraham took Isaac to Mt. Moriah to be offered up as a sacrifice to God.
The Torah is contradicted by Qur’an at nearly every point. According to Surah 2:119-121, Abraham and Ishmael did not dwell in tents in Israel but in the city of Mecca in Arabia. Together they rebuilt the Kabah and placed the black stone in the wall. It was Abraham who started the tradition of an annual pilgrimage to Mecca, throwing stones at the devil, etc. Abraham took Ishmael (not Isaac) to nearby Mt. Mina to offer as a sacrifice to God.
Ishmael’s twelve sons were named Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah. (Gen. 12:11-16) They intermarried with the local population in North Arabia and produced several nomadic tribes know as the "Ishmaelites."
It was prophesied in the Torah that Ishmael and his family would "live to the East of all his brothers." (Gen. 16:12) "And they settled from Havilah to Shur which is east of Egypt as one goes toward Assyria." (Gen 25:18) This broad area is the desert section East of Egypt in Northern Arabia toward the kingdom of the Assyrians.
The Ishmaelites are mentioned as a distinct tribe in the Assyrian records. They later intermarried with and were absorbed by the Midianites and other local tribes. In Gen. 37:25-28; 39:1, the Ishmaelites are called the Midianites and in Judges 8:22-24 cf. 7:1f, the Midianites are called the Ishmaelites. The identification cannot be made any stronger.
Arabia was already populated by the descendants of Cush and Shem long before Abraham or Ishmael were born (Gen. 10:7). Their cities and temples have been well documented by archeologists.
If all the Arab people descended from Ishmael as Muhammad claimed, where did all the original Arabs go? What happened to them? Who did Ishmael marry if the Arabs did not already exist? If Arabia was unpopulated, who built Mecca? Since he lived there, obviously it existed before he was born. The facts speak for themselves. The Arab people existed before, during, and after Ishmael moved started roaming the wilderness of North Arabia.
The descendants of Ishmael were scattered in Northern Arabia from the wilderness of Shur to the ancient city of Havilah. They were absorbed by the local tribes such as the Midianites (Gen. 37:25-28; 39:1; Judges 8:24). There is no historical or archeological evidence that Ishmael went south to Mecca and became the "Father" of the Arab race. Some modern Arab scholars admit that before Muhammad, Qahtan was said to be the "Father" of the Arab people, not Ishmael.
The Abrahamic Covenant was given only to Isaac and to his descendants. Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham were explicitly excluded by God from having any part of the covenant made with Abraham. (Gen. 18:18-21)
Therefore the descendants of Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham do not have any claim to the land of Israel because they are not included in the covenant God made with Abraham. Only the Jews have any claim to the land of Israel.
The Creator
28-09-2006, 01:11 PM
ok listen ...
u are never going to agree with each other !!!!!
you both believe in god - but do not believe in the same religion ... and both of you know about eachother's religion ... so what's is the point in keeping making threads about the quran is better than the bible or bible is better than quran ... when u never are going to agree with eachother ... because you believe in what you believe ... and no1 can make you believe in something else!
what im trying to say is that ... nobody can prove god's existence that is why it is called faith ...
got one thing to say to all the fags that dont agree ... fuck you :P
poisonIVY
28-09-2006, 03:02 PM
omg u never get what i say
so let me explain
this topic is a QUESTION
prophet mohammad in the bible?
many ppl ask me why he wasnt mentioned in the bible
bcoz i know all abt islam ! :cool:
the reason Muhammad wasn't mentioned in the Bible was because he was born after the Bible was already written.
read my posts !
“Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Tawraat (Torah) (Deut, xviii 15) and the Injeel (Gospel) (John, xiv 16), — he commands them for Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At‑Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al‑Khabaa’ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allaah’s Covenant with the children of Israel), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Qur’aan) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful
If you want to know more about the references to the coming of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in the Bible (even after it has been altered!) we refer you to the books “Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in the Bible” and “What the Bible says about Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)” by Ahmad Deedat.
dalijeet89
28-09-2006, 07:51 PM
Muhammed is NOT prophecised in the Bible. There is no evidence or anything about him in there. except Matt 24:24. Like i SAID it is all upto interpertation.
can u give me a resource or a link to this Ahmad Deedat thingy. that would be helpful and awesome. thanks
poisonIVY
29-09-2006, 02:39 AM
no i wont :p
haha
poisonIVY
29-09-2006, 02:40 AM
ok listen ...
u are never going to agree with each other !!!!!
you both believe in god - but do not believe in the same religion ... and both of you know about eachother's religion ... so what's is the point in keeping making threads about the quran is better than the bible or bible is better than quran ... when u never are going to agree with eachother ... because you believe in what you believe ... and no1 can make you believe in something else!
what im trying to say is that ... nobody can prove god's existence that is why it is called faith ...
got one thing to say to all the fags that dont agree ... fuck you :P
yeah u r right !
saima is sexi
29-09-2006, 05:39 AM
lol wowwww
ahh i dont know anythign about mohammed being in the bible
but im booty queen i must say that the bible is not exactly corrupt
because it is 1 of our 5 books..
but again its the "original" bible and idk ive def heard its been changed a few times so idk
romperstomper
12-01-2007, 01:05 AM
Muhammed is NOT prophecised in the Bible. There is no evidence or anything about him in there. except Matt 24:24. Like i SAID it is all upto interpertation.
can u give me a resource or a link to this Ahmad Deedat thingy. that would be helpful and awesome. thanks
dude i have no idea if u get online or not... neways .. here's what u wanted ..u might have found it by now though
Ahmed Deedat-
(Full Lecture)
http://www.islamworld.net/Muhammad.in.Bible.html
kaajli_akhiyan
28-01-2007, 06:38 AM
der r lotz of islamic sitez by the jewZ if u got da list dude can u gemme? i lost it :(
unregistered
30-01-2007, 01:37 PM
i have some interesting stuff abt this i'll post it later
romperstomper
31-01-2007, 04:08 AM
der r lotz of islamic sitez by the jewZ if u got da list dude can u gemme? i lost it :(