This is topic is to discuss the validity of the Qu'ran and the Bible. To start of i will present what the Bible is and hopefully Red Angel will present the side of the Qu'ran, if not anyone else is welcome to.
The Bible: The Bible was written by roughly 40 men in about a time spanning of 1600 years, dating back from 1500 B.C. to abotu 100 A.D. The Bible was written when these men were moved by the Holy Spirit. They wrote not in words of human wisdom but in the words taught by the Holy Spirit. The Bible is divinly inspired. The Bible is made of 27 books of the New testament and 39 in the old. The Bible is consisted of all inpsired scriptures, which was the Canon of Scriptures.
Historical Books - 12 books
Joshua, Judges, Ruth, First Samuel, Second Samuel, First Kings, Second Kings, First Chronicles, Second Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther.
Poetical - 5 books
Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon
Prophetical - 17 books
Major Prophets - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel
Minor Prophets - Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi
this is just a basic, with this topic i hope we can reach where we discuss the validity of the Bible and the Qur'an, and see y did Allah have to make multiple books...
coolest_gal
06-09-2006, 01:46 AM
Quran is a book revealed on prohet Mohammad PBUH.Angel Jibrail made him learn the entire book,it wasnt written by hand by ne1,it was revealed only in Prophets heart.
dalijeet89
07-09-2006, 11:10 AM
Quran is a book revealed on prohet Mohammad PBUH.Angel Jibrail made him learn the entire book,it wasnt written by hand by ne1,it was revealed only in Prophets heart.
It wasnt written by hand????
"Since Muhammad could not read or write, his companions wrote down what he said. These recitations were copied onto a variety of materials: papyrus, flat stones, palm leaves, shoulder blades and ribs of animals, pieces of leather and wooden boards." (Matt Slick - http://www.carm.org/islam/koran.htm)
It was written by hand, not by Muhammed but by his followers.
poisonIVY
09-09-2006, 11:00 AM
It wasnt written by hand????
"Since Muhammad could not read or write, his companions wrote down what he said. These recitations were copied onto a variety of materials: papyrus, flat stones, palm leaves, shoulder blades and ribs of animals, pieces of leather and wooden boards." (Matt Slick - http://www.carm.org/islam/koran.htm)
It was written by hand, not by Muhammed but by his followers.
it wasnt written by hand !
poisonIVY
09-09-2006, 11:03 AM
Firstly:
Allaah has guaranteed to preserve this Qur’aan Himself. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”
[al-Hijr 15:9]
Ibn Jareer al-Tabari said in his Tafseer, 14/8:
Allaah is saying, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (Reminder), i.e. the Qur’aan, and We will guard the Qur’aan against anything false being added to it that is not part of it, or anything that is part of it being taken away, whether that has to do with rulings, hudood punishments or matters having to do with inheritance.
Al-Sa’di said in his Tafseer (p. 696):
It is We Who have sent down the Qur’aan in which there is mention of all issues and clear evidence, and in which We remind those who want to be reminded.
“and surely, We will guard it” means, when it is being revealed and after it has been revealed. When it is revealed, We protect it from the tampering of every accursed devil, and after it has been revealed Allaah instilled it in the heart of His Messenger. Allaah protected the words from being changed and from anything being added or taken away, or from its meanings being distorted. So no one can attempt to distort its meanings but Allaah will guide someone to explain the truth of the Qur’aan. This is one of the greatest signs of Allaah and His blessing to His believing slaves. Another aspect of this protection is that Allaah protects the people of the Qur’aan against their enemies, and no enemy can overpower them and eliminate them.
The Qur’aan was revealed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in stages over a period of twenty-three years. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (it is) a Qur’aan which We have divided (into parts), in order that you might recite it to men at intervals. And We have revealed it by stages”
[al-Isra’ 17:106]
al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
This means, We have revealed this Qur’aan in stages, to differentiate between guidance and misguidance, between truth and falsehood.
“in order that you might recite it to men at intervals” means, slowly, so that they may ponder and think about its meanings, and understand the different branches of knowledge contained therein.
“And We have revealed it by stages” means, gradually, over a period of twenty-three years.
Tafseer al-Sa’di, p. 760.
Secondly:
Literacy was not widespread among the Arabs. Allaah described them in such terms when He said (interpretation of the meaning):
“He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger (Muhammad) from among themselves”
[al-Jumu’ah 63:2]
They used to memorize the Qur’aan by heart, and a few of them used to write down some verses or soorahs on animal skins, thin white stones and the like.
Thirdly:
At first the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade the writing of anything other than the Qur’aan, and he forbade them to write down his words for a while, so that the Sahaabah would focus on memorizing the Qur’aan and writing it down, and so that the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would not be confused with the words of Allaah, and so the Qur’aan was protected from anything being added or taken away.
poisonIVY
09-09-2006, 11:05 AM
Fourthly:
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) appointed a group of his companions who were trustworthy and knowledgeable to write down the revelation. They are known in their biographies as those who wrote down the Revelation, such as the four Caliphs, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan, Zayd ibn Thaabit and others – may Allaah be pleased with them all.
Fifthly:
The Qur’aan was revealed in seven dialects as was narrated in the saheeh hadeeth of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This was narrated by al-Bukhaari (2287) and Muslim (818); these were the dialects of the Arabs which were known for their eloquence.
Sixthly:
The Qur’aan continued to be preserved in the hearts of the Sahaabah who had memorized it, and on the skins and other materials until the time of the caliph Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him). During the Riddah wars many of the Sahaabah who had memorized the Qur’aan were killed, and Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) was afraid that the Qur’aan would be lost. So he consulted the senior Sahaabah about compiling the Qur’aan in a single book so that it would remain preserved and would not be lost. He entrusted this mission to the chief of memorizers Zayd ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him). Al-Bukhaari narrated in his Saheeh (4986) that Zayd ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq sent for me when the people of al-Yamaamah had been killed [i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against the false prophet Musaylimah]. (I went to him) and found ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), “ ‘Umar has come to me and said: ‘Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the Qur'aan (i.e. those who knew the Qur’aan by heart) on the day of the battle of al-Yamaamah, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur’aan may be lost. Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur’aan be collected.” I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not do?" 'Umar said, "By Allah, this is something good." 'Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allaah opened my heart to it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). “You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). So search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur’aan and compile it in one book." By Allah If they had ordered me to move one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to compile the Qur’aan. Then I said (to Abu Bakr), "How can you do something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not do?" Abu Bakr replied, "By Allaah, it is a good thing." Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept his idea until Allaah opened my heart to that to which He had opened the hearts of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. So I started looking for the Qur’aan and collecting it from (what it was written on) palm stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, until I found the last Verse of Soorat al-Tawbah with Abu Khuzaymah al-Ansaari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The verse is (interpretation of the meaning):
"Verily, there has come unto you a Messenger (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty...” [al-Tawbah 9:128] until the end of Soorat Baraa’ah (i.e., al-Tawbah).
Then the complete manuscript (copy) of the Qur’aan remained with Abu Bakr until he died, then with 'Umar until the end of his life, and then with Hafsah, the daughter of 'Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him).
The Sahaabi Zayd ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him) knew the Qur’aan by heart but he was methodical in his confirmation; he would not agree to write down any verse until two of the Sahaabah testified that they had heard it from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
This Mus-haf (written copy of the Qur’aan) remained in the hands of the caliphs until the time of the Rightly-Guided Caliph ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan (may Allaah be pleased with him). The Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) had dispersed to different lands, and they used to recite the Qur’aan according to what they had heard of the seven recitations from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and each of their students used to recite according to what he had heard from his shaykh. If a student heard someone reciting in a manner different from what he knew, he would denounce him and accuse him of making a mistake, and this went on until the Sahaabah feared that there would be fitnah (trouble) between the Taabi’een and successive generations. So they thought that they should unite the people in following one recitation, which was in the dialect of Quraysh in which the Qur’aan had first been revealed, so as to dispel any disputes and resolve the matter. ‘Uthmaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) was consulted, and he agreed with this opinion.
Al-Bukhaari narrated in his Saheeh (4988) from Anas ibn Maalik that Hudhayfah ibn al-Yamaan came to ‘Uthmaan at the time when the people of Shaam (Syria) and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Armenia and Azerbaijan. Hudhayfah was alarmed by their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur’aan, so he said to 'Uthmaan, "O Ameer al-Mu’mineen! Save this nation before they dispute about the Book (Qur’aan) as the Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthmaan sent a message to Hafsah saying, "Send us the manuscript of the Qur’aan so that we may make copies of the Mus-haf and we will return the manuscript to you."
Hafsah sent it to 'Uthmaan. Then 'Uthmaan ordered Zayd ibn Thaabit, 'Abdullah ibn al-Zubayr, Sa’eed ibn al-‘Aas and ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Haarith ibn Hishaam to copy out the manuscripts. 'Uthmaan said to the three men who were from Quraysh (the tribe of which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was a member), “In case you disagree with Zayd ibn Thaabit on any point in the Qur’aan, then write it in the dialect of Quraysh, for the Qur’aan was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthmaan returned the original manuscripts to Hafsah.
'Uthmaan sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'aanic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.
Ibn Shihaab said: Khaarijah ibn Zayd ibn Thaabit told me that he heard Zayd ibn Thaabit say: “When we made copies of the Mus-haf I missed a verse of al-Ahzaab that I used to hear the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) recite. So we searched for it and we found it with Khuzaymah ibn Thaabit al-Ansaari. (The verse was) ‘Among the believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allaah’ [al-Ahzaab 33:23 – interpretation of the meaning]. So we put it in its place in its soorah in the Mus-haf.”
Thus an end was put to dispute and the Muslims were united. The Qur’aan has remained and will remain narrated from generation to generation and preserved in men's hearts until the Day of Resurrection. This is how Allaah has preserved His Book, in confirmation of the verse in which He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”
[al-Hijr 15:9]
And Allaah knows best.
poisonIVY
09-09-2006, 11:12 AM
we do not believe that jesus ( Prophet Isa ) is god
but we love and respect him !
he is our prophet !
and we love Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h.)
so show some respect !
bye
dalijeet89
11-09-2006, 07:02 PM
we do not believe that jesus ( Prophet Isa ) is god
but we love and respect him !
he is our prophet !
and we love Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h.)
so show some respect !
bye
forgive 'cause i did not read ur whole posts, but may i say that i respect Muhammad and i am not trying to make him a bad guy or even LOOk bad. i just scanned ur post and i am glad that u have found some kind of evidence to refute my claim. But may i ask a few questions, was my post wrong? is history wrong when it claimed this? were they misleaded? This is what history has claimed and this is what Mr. Matt Slick retrieved.
poisonIVY
12-09-2006, 04:11 AM
i have written abt that in my post ! see
[al-Jumu’ah 63:2]
They used to memorize the Qur’aan by heart, and a few of them used to write down some verses or soorahs on animal skins, thin white stones and the like.
Thirdly:
At first the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade the writing of anything other than the Qur’aan, and he forbade them to write down his words for a while, so that the Sahaabah would focus on memorizing the Qur’aan and writing it down, and so that the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would not be confused with the words of Allaah, and so the Qur’aan was protected from anything being added or taken away.
dalijeet89
12-09-2006, 05:58 AM
i have written abt that in my post ! see
[al-Jumu’ah 63:2]
They used to memorize the Qur’aan by heart, and a few of them used to write down some verses or soorahs on animal skins, thin white stones and the like.
Thirdly:
At first the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade the writing of anything other than the Qur’aan, and he forbade them to write down his words for a while, so that the Sahaabah would focus on memorizing the Qur’aan and writing it down, and so that the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would not be confused with the words of Allaah, and so the Qur’aan was protected from anything being added or taken away.
ok... so it was written down by hand, you said it right here "They used to memorize the Qur’aan by heart, and a few of them used to write down some verses or soorahs on animal skins, thin white stones and the like. " and your other post just clarified that they did not write it down "for a while". I was NOT wrong is in saying that "the qu'ran was written down by hand".
Now we have a clear overlook of the Bible and Qu'ran, but if u need anymore info about any of the 2, you can PM me or somebody who knows what they are writing about like Booty Queen and Red Angel. But now that we have these backgrounds lets validate the books with reason and logic. i will post something as soon as i get back from school or work. please be patient
poisonIVY
12-09-2006, 07:51 AM
it WASNT written by hand like i said !
quran is our holy book sent down by Allah to the Prophet Mohammad pbuh
yeah some used to write it down on that stuff ! USED TO!!
but the Prophet told them NOT TO !!!!
dalijeet89
12-09-2006, 01:05 PM
it WASNT written by hand like i said !
quran is our holy book sent down by Allah to the Prophet Mohammad pbuh
yeah some used to write it down on that stuff ! USED TO!!
but the Prophet told them NOT TO !!!!
ok they DON'T write it down anymore.
There has been a lot of contradictions and historical inaccuracies supposidly in the 2 books. As Christians we KNOW there are no contraditcions, there never were. The Bible has never been wrong on anything historically. If u have an alledged contradiction do post it here i WILL refute it. The Qu'ran has also some alledged contradictions and historical innaccuraies. This is how we are going to end these supposed allegations. I will post one alledged innaccuracy in the Qu'ran and then i will get an answer then the person who has posted will get a chance to place a contradiction in the Bible.
First: "Pharaoh said: Ye believe in Him before I give you leave! Lo! this is the plot that ye have plotted in the city that ye may drive its people hence. But ye shall come to know! 124 Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one," (Quran 7:123-124).
there is a problem here crucifixion wasnt invented until 600 B.C. by the Phoenicians, the egyptians could not have crucified anybody cause it was not invented. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/007.qmt.html this website helps a bit but there is no point of looking at it if u can refute it.
saima is sexi
16-09-2006, 05:38 AM
hai allah
booty queen is so right...
the quran was not written down when it first was "revealed"
the prophet mohammed had memorized it and made other ppl memorize it and so on and so forth..
and then after a few generations they starting writing it down..
it is a FACT that the quran is the same now as it was back in prophet mohammeds (S) day..
there areant even different versions out there like the bible has
every version is EXACTLY the same..
so idk what ur on about
i scanned the posts..and yeah just clarifying what ms booty queen had in such long posts.. lol
dalijeet89
17-09-2006, 11:16 AM
[QUOTE=saima is sexi]hai allah
booty queen is so right...
the quran was not written down when it first was "revealed"
the prophet mohammed had memorized it and made other ppl memorize it and so on and so forth..
and then after a few generations they starting writing it down..
it is a FACT that the quran is the same now as it was back in prophet mohammeds (S) day..
there areant even different versions out there like the bible has
every version is EXACTLY the same..
so idk what ur on about
i scanned the posts..and yeah just clarifying what ms booty queen had in such long posts.. lol[/QUOTE
You did not answer my question, nor did you but post anything useful. But u did say something interestign however, yoy say that there are many copies of the Bible... how do u know this? Do u know of any? Can u give me an example where the Bible has been changed?
"Hudhaifa was afraid of their differences in the recitation of the Qur'an...Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. (Hadith, Vol. 6, Book 61, #510)
(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/061.sbt.html Narrated Anas bin Malik.)
If there were so many other copies that were destroyed, then we have no way of knowing what the real Quran said.
dalijeet89
18-09-2006, 05:41 PM
before posting again can someone explain my first question? Thanks!:D
dalijeet89
18-09-2006, 05:42 PM
forgive me for putting now two questions. Let me clear up and mistakes i had when typing about the changes in the Bible. What i am trying to say does not pertain to the different versions of the Bible, (NIV and KJV), but i am asking when and where the Bible has been changed. the NIV and KJV do not contradict each other nor do they have any different interpertations of the Text. They both mean the same thing and that goes with all the other types of translations. Agian When and Where has the Bible been changed? And can you give me an example
saima is sexi
20-09-2006, 05:42 AM
[QUOTE=saima is sexi]hai allah
booty queen is so right...
the quran was not written down when it first was "revealed"
the prophet mohammed had memorized it and made other ppl memorize it and so on and so forth..
and then after a few generations they starting writing it down..
it is a FACT that the quran is the same now as it was back in prophet mohammeds (S) day..
there areant even different versions out there like the bible has
every version is EXACTLY the same..
so idk what ur on about
i scanned the posts..and yeah just clarifying what ms booty queen had in such long posts.. lol[/QUOTE
You did not answer my question, nor did you but post anything useful. But u did say something interestign however, yoy say that there are many copies of the Bible... how do u know this? Do u know of any? Can u give me an example where the Bible has been changed?
"Hudhaifa was afraid of their differences in the recitation of the Qur'an...Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. (Hadith, Vol. 6, Book 61, #510)
(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/061.sbt.html Narrated Anas bin Malik.)
If there were so many other copies that were destroyed, then we have no way of knowing what the real Quran said.
um yes you do
did u not read what i said?
prophet muhammed and other people
MADE people memorize the quran
and my made i do not mean by force just saying that is what people did
and as for the bible comment
im sorry
but i have seen it with my two eyes
u open up one bible it says one thing u open up another it says another
and the bible is one of our 5 books not the version u guys have today, THE ORIGINAL one.
and if u open up 1 quran and another quran they are exactly the same.
allah (SWT) said hes going to protect the quran
the only time it will not be protected is when the day of judgement is near, and when people stop reading quran and just use it as a mere piece of decoration.
saima is sexi
20-09-2006, 05:44 AM
forgive me for putting now two questions. Let me clear up and mistakes i had when typing about the changes in the Bible. What i am trying to say does not pertain to the different versions of the Bible, (NIV and KJV), but i am asking when and where the Bible has been changed. the NIV and KJV do not contradict each other nor do they have any different interpertations of the Text. They both mean the same thing and that goes with all the other types of translations. Agian When and Where has the Bible been changed? And can you give me an example
idk what your on
but even priests admit that there are MANY different versions of the bible
did u kno that in the original bible a women is to shave her head in shame for not coverign her hair?
*Red Angel*
20-09-2006, 07:47 AM
Ooo..been a while since I've come here..too lazy I guess...and a lot of school work too...:p
So you ask when and where the Bible has been changed.
“The pslams were written by King David, so to see if it prone to error, we need to see King David's history... but i do know his pslams are songs and poems so i do not see them beign wrong, they are his own personal writings. the Gospels were written by the disciples and were eye-witness accounts. the Gospel of Mark, like i said, was written 30 yrs after Christ death, so it is reliable since it could not have been corrupted, because people were still alive who could have refuted the account. Again the Gospels were the disciples of Christ who died for their teachings and writings. If they were false, or "prone to error", and they were dying that Christ resurrected, why did they die for a lie, or y did the die for a hunch, (because if they are prone to error, they might not have known what it was that they saw)”
See here you have clearly identified a very significant difference between the Bible and the Qura’n. The Bible contains eye witness accounts of events …songs and poems of their own personal writings which could possibly mean that the writers were likely to promote their own religious, spiritual and political beliefs. Now you tell me that is changing what God has revealed is it not? Over the centuries many things have been added to or taken out of the bible. Many significant errors, now would God have sent down such a revelation for his people?
The Qura’n on the other hand is not the work of man nor is it opinions or accounts of people put into one book. It is the words of God revealed to Prophet Muhammed (SAW) through angel Gibrai’l. It was memorized by Prophet Muhammed and many early Muslim followers. Even when it was written down, the order of verses and everything were sorted on what Angel Gibrai’l told the Prophet.
So when has the Bible been changed...many times over centuries. Where? In churches themselves I guess.
:)
dalijeet89
20-09-2006, 11:00 AM
[QUOTE=dalijeet89]
um yes you do
did u not read what i said?
prophet muhammed and other people
MADE people memorize the quran
and my made i do not mean by force just saying that is what people did
and as for the bible comment
im sorry
but i have seen it with my two eyes
u open up one bible it says one thing u open up another it says another
and the bible is one of our 5 books not the version u guys have today, THE ORIGINAL one.
and if u open up 1 quran and another quran they are exactly the same.
allah (SWT) said hes going to protect the quran
the only time it will not be protected is when the day of judgement is near, and when people stop reading quran and just use it as a mere piece of decoration.
No, just because there are different translations that does not mean the text are meaning different things. There are different translations but they do NOT show a different meaning, for example when the Bible says "Good Master" to Jesus and the other one says "Good Teacher" are they not meaning different things? No it is not.
dalijeet89
20-09-2006, 11:06 AM
idk what your on
but even priests admit that there are MANY different versions of the bible
did u kno that in the original bible a women is to shave her head in shame for not coverign her hair?
no they mean the different translations to the Bible. None of these "different Bibles" challenge the Christian Doctrine... if they do then it is NOT the Holy Bible. Show me where in the ORiginal Bible it says that women need to shave their head, i am not saying u r wrong but give me evidence
dalijeet89
20-09-2006, 11:16 AM
[QUOTE=
See here you have clearly identified a very significant difference between the Bible and the Qura’n. The Bible contains eye witness accounts of events …songs and poems of their own personal writings which could possibly mean that the writers were likely to promote their own religious, spiritual and political beliefs. Now you tell me that is changing what God has revealed is it not? Over the centuries many things have been added to or taken out of the bible. Many significant errors, now would God have sent down such a revelation for his people?
So when has the Bible been changed...many times over centuries. Where? In churches themselves I guess.
:)[/QUOTE]
No the men who wrote the Bible and the scriptures where inspired by the Holy Spirit. God used Man to write the Scriptures, this goes with all Books in the Bible. All were Inspired by the Holy Spirit. What is wrong with the Psalms of David? David was Inspired by the Holy Spirit. How can God be prone to error? What has been added and taken out of the Bible? How do you know this?
dalijeet89
20-09-2006, 05:55 PM
I have responed to every question and post you have presented but you have not yet answered my two questions. Please answer them before posting others. Thanks!:D
First: "Pharaoh said: Ye believe in Him before I give you leave! Lo! this is the plot that ye have plotted in the city that ye may drive its people hence. But ye shall come to know! 124 Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one," (Quran 7:123-124).
there is a problem here crucifixion wasnt invented until 600 B.C. by the Phoenicians, the egyptians could not have crucified anybody cause it was not invented. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/007.qmt.html this website helps a bit but there is no point of looking at it if u can refute it.
"Hudhaifa was afraid of their differences in the recitation of the Qur'an...Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. (Hadith, Vol. 6, Book 61, #510)
(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...i/061.sbt.html Narrated Anas bin Malik.)
If there were so many other copies that were destroyed, then we have no way of knowing what the real Quran said. How do you know that the Qur'an that we have now is the REAL or CORRECT one?
*Red Angel*
21-09-2006, 01:03 PM
First: "Pharaoh said: Ye believe in Him before I give you leave! Lo! this is the plot that ye have plotted in the city that ye may drive its people hence. But ye shall come to know! 124 Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one," (Quran 7:123-124).
there is a problem here crucifixion wasnt invented until 600 B.C. by the Phoenicians, the egyptians could not have crucified anybody cause it was not invented. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/007.qmt.html this website helps a bit but there is no point of looking at it if u can refute it.
To crucify is not just hanging someone on a cross, it can also mean to deliver a severe punishment which could be anything and I'm sure that at that time they had methods of torturing people. Plus nowhere in that aayat does it specifically mention "hanging on a cross" or any such action. (I acknowledge that one of those translations did use the word cross, however the arabic word for cross has not even been used in this aayat - if you look at the arabic so I assume it's been translated incorrectly)
:)
Don't worry next one will be coming soon....:p
dalijeet89
21-09-2006, 03:02 PM
To crucify is not just hanging someone on a cross, it can also mean to deliver a severe punishment which could be anything and I'm sure that at that time they had methods of torturing people. Plus nowhere in that aayat does it specifically mention "hanging on a cross" or any such action. (I acknowledge that one of those translations did use the word cross, however the arabic word for cross has not even been used in this aayat - if you look at the arabic so I assume it's been translated incorrectly)
:)
Don't worry next one will be coming soon....:p
"Crucifixion is an ancient method of execution, where the victim was tied or nailed to a large wooden cross (possible as a variation a pole or beam) and left to hang there until dead. It was widely considered a not uncommon but extremely dishonorable and painful form of judicial execution in the Roman Empire, though similar methods were employed in other ancient cultures such as Persia." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion
WordNet - Cite This Source
Crucifixion
n 1: the act of executing by a method widespread in the ancient world; the victim's hands and feet are bound or nailed to a cross 2: the death of Jesus on the cross [syn: Crucifixion] 3: the infliction of extremely painful punishment or suffering [syn: excruciation]
saima is sexi
22-09-2006, 05:46 AM
no they mean the different translations to the Bible. None of these "different Bibles" challenge the Christian Doctrine... if they do then it is NOT the Holy Bible. Show me where in the ORiginal Bible it says that women need to shave their head, i am not saying u r wrong but give me evidence
i've read it
it was from the "original bible"
but apparently its changed
ok i kno for a fact that the bible has been "updated" so many times
some lady even told me when she came to the masjid to "spread chirstianity"
*Red Angel*
22-09-2006, 08:51 AM
"Crucifixion is an ancient method of execution, where the victim was tied or nailed to a large wooden cross (possible as a variation a pole or beam) and left to hang there until dead. It was widely considered a not uncommon but extremely dishonorable and painful form of judicial execution in the Roman Empire, though similar methods were employed in other ancient cultures such as Persia." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion
WordNet - Cite This Source
Crucifixion
n 1: the act of executing by a method widespread in the ancient world; the victim's hands and feet are bound or nailed to a cross 2: the death of Jesus on the cross [syn: Crucifixion] 3: the infliction of extremely painful punishment or suffering [syn: excruciation]
Okay so are you making a point or verifying what I just said.*bit confused*
dalijeet89
22-09-2006, 03:58 PM
i've read it
it was from the "original bible"
but apparently its changed
ok i kno for a fact that the bible has been "updated" so many times
some lady even told me when she came to the masjid to "spread chirstianity"
You cannot say that statment "you know for a fact" that would be irrational. You DO NOT all the facts. What do you mean "updated"?
Once you explain this i will refute it.
dalijeet89
22-09-2006, 04:03 PM
Okay so are you making a point or verifying what I just said.*bit confused*
i was defining the word Crucifixion and it shows we are both right. Nailing to the cross and painful torture. I just wanted to show how we are both right. Let us see however what the Pharoh meant... i do not know. Can you get me the Arabic translation and see the CORRECT definition.
saima is sexi
26-09-2006, 05:14 AM
what mean is that you the bible has been "updated"
and i AM SAYING THIS IS A FACT because i have seen MAAAAANNNY different versions of the bible. and there is only one version of the quran
and THE ORIGINAL bible is one of the 5 books that WE as muslims believe in.
not the "updated" ones you have today
and as u say diffferent translations
no things have been removed, start googling stuff or something i kno for a fact from my eyes that it in the original bible it says a women who does not cover her hair should shave it in shame.
dalijeet89
26-09-2006, 12:25 PM
what are these "updates"?
What are these different versions of the Bible?
are these things that have been removed, (if there are any), condradict or deny the Christian Doctrine?
I do not google things off about Islam and Christianity. I never have. I go to www.carm.org.
saima is sexi
27-09-2006, 05:17 AM
go ask that website if there have been any "updates" to the bible and if there are different versions out there because i am 110% sure there has been.
dalijeet89
27-09-2006, 11:59 AM
go ask that website if there have been any "updates" to the bible and if there are different versions out there because i am 110% sure there has been.
if u do not know of any "updates" then there are none. i dont know of any "updates". We do not have the original Bible, only copies of it. The Bible definently has errors but that does not mean the original copies did. (When i mean errors i mean word choice from the original translations, such as "Thrice"). No errors or "updates" in the Bible can alter the Christian Doctrine so it does not affect me. If the Bible misses a few words cause of translation problems it does NOT affect me or the Christian Doctrine.
saima is sexi
27-09-2006, 01:52 PM
i gave an example of an update
go ask that website if it is true that a women shoudl shave her head in shame in return for not covering her head
and get back to me
dalijeet89
28-09-2006, 05:57 AM
i gave an example of an update
go ask that website if it is true that a women shoudl shave her head in shame in return for not covering her head
and get back to me
hahah i tried finding it but i HATE google! haha
saima is sexi
28-09-2006, 03:29 PM
google is my friend lol
dalijeet89
28-09-2006, 07:54 PM
ha not for me... :( . i always get stuck with useless information. wikipedia is where everythin is at!
saima is sexi
29-09-2006, 05:32 AM
wikipedia isnt bad but i heart google
although sometimes it can be a biacchh
souahmed
25-01-2007, 11:16 PM
There is evidence that egyptians and others crucified or impaled people as punishment. check this link. http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/crucify.html#4a
kaajli_akhiyan
26-01-2007, 02:34 PM
no offence but dat guy iz jus tryin 2 prove hiz ryt he wont accpet ani answer! |o|x
poisonIVY
26-01-2007, 05:27 PM
no offence but dat guy iz jus tryin 2 prove hiz ryt he wont accpet ani answer! |o|x
I know eh..took me hours to find it
dunno why i even botherd
kaajli_akhiyan
27-01-2007, 07:28 AM
|ooo|xx aww he wasted evrionez tym if yooh ask meh lol tryin 2 saii dat hiz believez r ryt n our r rong .. sum sore loZa :p