Warning to Muslims

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/lordstevens.shtml

WHEN will the Muslims of Britain stand up to be counted?

When will they declare, loud and clear, with no qualifications or quibbles about Britain's foreign

policy, that Islamic terrorism is WRONG?

Most of all, when will the Muslim community in this country accept an absolute, undeniable,

total truth: that Islamic terrorism is THEIR problem? THEY own it. And it is THEIR duty to

face it and eradicate it.

To stop the denial, endless fudging and constant wailing that somehow it is everyone else's

problem and, if Islamic terrorism exists at all, they are somehow the main victims.

Because until that happens the problem will never be resolved. And there will be more 7/7s and,

sometime in the future, another airplane plot will succeed with horrific loss of innocent life.

Equally important, those British politicians who have seemed obsessed with pandering to, and

even encouraging, this state of denial, must throw off their politically-correct blinkers and

recognise the same truth—that Muslim terrorism in Britain is the direct responsibility of British

Muslims.

If only they would follow the lead of Home Secretary John Reid, whose tough, pragmatic,

clear-sighted approach has been a breath of fresh air. Only then can they properly work out

how to tackle it.

For instance, every airport in Britain is in chaos over the plane bomb-plot alert as every

passenger is subjected to rigorous security checks. Why? They take lots of time, lots of staff,

and are extremely expensive.

I'm a white 62-year-old 6ft 4ins suit-wearing ex-cop—I fly often, but do I really fit the profile of

suicide bomber? Does the young mum with three tots? The gay couple, the rugby team, the

middle-aged businessman?

No. But they are all getting exactly the same amount and devouring huge resources for no

logical reason whatsoever. Yet the truth is Islamic terrorism in the West has been universally

carried out by young Muslim men, usually of ethnic appearance, almost always travelling alone

or in very small groups. A tiny percentage, I bet, of those delayed today have such

characteristics.

This targeting of airport resources is called passenger profiling—the Israelis invented it and

they've got probably the safest airports and airlines in the world.

In all my years at the front line of fighting terrorism, one truth was always clear — communities

beat terrorists, not governments or security forces. But communities can't beat terrorism unless

they have the will to do so. My heart sank this week as I saw and read the knee-jerk reaction

of friends and neighbours of those arrested in this latest incident, insisting it was all a mistake

and the anti-terrorist squad had the wrong people.

I have no idea whether those arrested are guilty or not. But neither have those friends and

neighbours. They spoke as if it was inconceivable such a thing could happen in their community;

that those arrested were all good Muslims; that Islam is a religion of peace so no Muslim could

dream of planning such an act.

But we heard the same from the family and friends of the 7/7 bombers, didn't we?

And the two young British Muslims who died as suicide bombers in Israel. Then there are the

British Muslims known to have become suicide bombers in Iraq.

There is currently a huge, long-running and complex alleged Islamist bomb plot being tried at the

Old Bailey. And a fistful of other cases of alleged Muslim terrorism plots such as the 21/7

London Underground case are also awaiting trial.

All this would suggest the blindingly obvious—that terrorism is a major problem for the Muslim

community of Britain. Of course, there will be instant squealings that this is racism. It's not. It's

exactly the same as recognising that, during the Northern Ireland troubles that left thousands

dead, the IRA were totally based in the Catholic community and the UVF in the Protestant.

And that, most importantly, IRA terrorism only began to draw to a close when that Catholic

community it was based in decided as a whole that it was no longer prepared to back violence

as the only way forward. Interestingly, it was Catholic revulsion over republican terrorist

atrocities such as Enniskillen and Omagh that fuelled that change.

Well, Muslim terrorism in Britain is based in, has its roots in, and grows in, our Muslim

community. The madmen of 7/7 and other suicide bombings didn't hide among the Hindu

communities, worship in the Sikh temples, recruit at Catholic churches, did they? It may be true

that events in Iraq have angered sections of the Muslim community. I have no doubts, whatever

Tony Blair says, that it was a catalyst. I also think it's entirely fair for Muslims, if they wish, to

vocally oppose Britain's continuing involvement there.

I can recognise, too, that recent events in Lebanon inflame some people, and they want their

voices of protest heard. The absolutely unacceptable problem is that this opposition is used by

too many to turn a blind eye to, or excuse, terrorists in their midst.

Blasting a passenger airliner out of the sky, killing hundreds of innocent men, women and

children, is NEVER acceptable. Under any circumstances. There is NEVER an excuse.

A terrible tragedy costing Muslim lives in Lebanon or Iraq or Afghanistan is never ever an

excuse for terrorism here.

It is totally unacceptable, totally wrong. What one party perceives as a wrong, no matter how

strongly they feel, does not, in turn, justify another wrong being done to avenge it.

And until every single member of the Muslim community believes that and preaches that—from

an ordinary parent to imam or madrassa teacher—terrorism can't be beaten.

Politicians must accept this truth, and do something about it. One example would be to tackle

this chaos at our airports and the passenger profiling I described earlier. Another must is to

reconsider ID cards. The importance of knowing whether someone really is who they say they

are has never been higher.

This must be combined with improved border controls, logging exactly who goes OUT of the

country as well as who comes in should also be reconsidered, whatever the politically correct

among us may say. The time terrorism suspects are kept in custody before charge has also

caused dissent. Currently the maximum is 28 days—it may well be this should be reconsidered

and, if necessary, raised again to, say, 42 days.

Plainly, Muslim terrorism isn't going away. We need to consider everything in our battle to

defeat it. But that's the responsibility of all.

Not least the community where, sadly for them, it is festering.

I agree wit some of tha points u made there. good post!

"when will the Muslim community in this country accept an absolute, undeniable,
total truth: that Islamic terrorism is THEIR problem? THEY own it. And it is THEIR duty to
face it and eradicate it"

no, the Islamic terrorism is not muslim communties problem. u cant blame the muslim ppl. do u knw how many muslim ppl are in this world? when things like this happen u cant blame the muslim community. u blame the fuckin ppl that do it ok. for u to say that when will the "muslim community" will accept their terriosm, ur blaming evrey single muslim person.

theres bad group of people in every single religon. when white people rape girls, is the whole religon blamed? do people go arnd and say, "when will these christian/jews accept that they are the cause for all the rapes?"

so no, the Islamic terriosm is not muslim people problem. its the people who do it, its their problem.

^^^i support u cent percent there hammad! yeah just coz there some bad people which are in every religion doesnt mean the whole entire religion is like that!...

and in addition to that - people who write these articles and make up these stories got nothing better to do then to write of rubbish like this which shows how low intellectual they are and pathetic!

-Blasting a passenger airliner out of the sky, killing hundreds of innocent men, women and

children, is NEVER acceptable. Under any circumstances. There is NEVER an excuse. -


I've never heard any person right in his mind say that things like that ARE acceptable.You're making it sound like only ''non-muslim'' people agree with this.You are wrong. People rather believe what they hear/see on tv rather thn doing some research themselves.They lett others think for them. How come when something bad is said on tv about muslims the next day everyone looks weird at you on the streets and when it's said about non muslim people -which rarely happens- we all forget it the moment we switch of the tv?? Are things like this acceptable towards muslims..towards people who are like you and me? Is it acceptable how Americans treat muslims and black people in their hidden prisons?
You can't blame a whole cummunity for something a group of people do. For example.. you go to work..lalala..nice day lalala..you get there and you hear something is stolen from the office of you boss..thn you all try yo find out who did it instead of blaming everyone who works there.Why can't you do the same with terrorisme? Why do you blame the whole muslim cummunity when it's not even their fault? You people just like to point and blame someone else aslong it's not yourself. Why don't you first learn to keep you fingers where they belong -in your pockets- and thn talk about whats acceptable and what's not.

Your own gouvernment is fooling you guys.They say we do this and this to fight terrorisme but they forget to tell you that all those terrorists -the leaders i mean- all of them went to uni' in the UK or USA.They went to several uni's ,gatherd information they needed..what was done at that point by the gouvernment?..nothing. If they do sooo much to fight terrorisme ,especially after what happen with the twin towers, thn why did the terrorists succeeded in doing what they did in the UK with the subway a few years later?..
I think i't's everyone's problem , it's not like terrorisme only disturbs the non muslim people, it's a fear for everyone.You can only fight terrorisme by fighting against the right and not wrong people(the whole muslim community).

lol yeah Khushi, we should go find this guy and give him a slapping. lol

very well said Leila, waise tu be kafi smart hai. lol
u knw, come to think of it, if u want us muslim ppl to accept that terriosm is their problem, then u ppl also need to accept that u can never stop us. :D u cldnt stop us. we are just too strong of a force. :D u people need to accept that terriosm is ur fault, cause u guys just cant stop us. lol

that was a jk btw, but what Leila said is correct.

Agree..agree...agree...wah you poeple are good na.....:p But I also agree with some of the points made in that article...it's true two wrongs don't make a right. Those people shouldn't have done what they did killing so many innocent people that cannot be justified in any way.

BUT to say that it's the Muslim communities fault...uhhh...how? The causal factor of all these bombings isn't Islam (that's just used as an excuse for these people)...it's the government. It's the war in Iraq...it's what's happening in Lebanon now...it's Bush and Blair. If the government is that worried and really wants to help...then why don't they work alongside the Muslim community rather than against it? What so giving police the right to search anyone walking in the streets who's Asian or has a beard is solving this problem? Keeping people for 28 days (that's 1 month people!) without charge is helping? No...it just adds fuel to the fire. Even recently...the cartoon incident...that just stops any Muslims trusting the government, if you allow things like that to happen.

It's okay to say it is the Muslim communities problem...but what has anyone else done? Except from labelling every Muslim a terrorist...nothing.

^Just my thoughts...man this topic is very sensitive...:rolleyes: Hope I didn't offend anyone. :)

lol yeah Khushi, we should go find this guy and give him a slapping. lol

very well said Leila, waise tu be kafi smart hai. lol
u knw, come to think of it, if u want us muslim ppl to accept that terriosm is their problem, then u ppl also need to accept that u can never stop us. :D u cldnt stop us. we are just too strong of a force. :D u people need to accept that terriosm is ur fault, cause u guys just cant stop us. lol

that was a jk btw, but what Leila said is correct.


EJAAAAAAAACTLYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! - give him one on the left and one the rite- will bring him to senses - before making any more trash conclusions - sucha lowlife!

Ps. the joke thingy was cool - ''u just cant stop us'' hahahaha loool

lol yeah Khushi, we should go find this guy and give him a slapping. lol

very well said Leila, waise tu be kafi smart hai. lol
u knw, come to think of it, if u want us muslim ppl to accept that terriosm is their problem, then u ppl also need to accept that u can never stop us. u cldnt stop us. we are just too strong of a force. :D u people need to accept that terriosm is ur fault, cause u guys just cant stop us. lol

that was a jk btw, but what Leila said is correct.
Merci beaucoup :) [eventho i dont know what you just said there in hindi..but you did write ''smart'' so..im guessin it's not bad ?:D ]

LOL! You're krazy! Yes you can't stop us muslims..especially the ones with a personal assistent eh Hammad ;) Haha.
Actually the joke does have a lil truth to it. The fact that everyone who has a beard or looks Asian is seen for a terrorist is for many people a reason to go against the government instead of terrorisme itself. I've heard..well i know that some people act like a terrorist just to bug those who think so small. They grow a long beard,dress differently and act like a terrorist and when they're with friends they laugh about how scared the people were cause they thought HE was a terrorist and how the guard followed him in the supermarket cause he was afraid he would steal something. I think the more people lable it as '' A problem of the Muslim community only'' ,the more the terrorisme will win.Wether it's in the sentence of blowing up buildings or in the sentence of growing a beard for fun.
Besides Bush and Blair will only work together with someone when it has advantages for them..so it's weird though why they won't work together with Muslim cummunity.The advantage of the cooperation with the Muslim cummunity would be less terrorisme...You'd think they want to fight terrorisme instead of letting it happen...guess not.

nono, its ok Red Angel, im sure u didnt offend neone. what u said was 100% correct.

u knw Khushi, i wonder if there is a contact for the writer of that article, so i can send him a hatred email. cause every time i come in thsi thread and read that portion, my blood gets all hot, and i feel like killing him. lol

lol, yeah i knw it has a truth to it. i just said jk at the end so no one gets mad. lol

haha Leila, do u grow beards and go to supermarket like taht? i knw u do, now dnt lie to me. lol

yeah its true, but if bush and blair want some real advantage, they shld wrk with the muslims, or rather, they shld rather wrk for the muslims. :D
then im sure all this will come to an end. lol

wow guys, i think we won another debate. good job. lol

danali kadho, ek dujhee nu maro :D

nono, its ok Red Angel, im sure u didnt offend neone. what u said was 100% correct.

u knw Khushi, i wonder if there is a contact for the writer of that article, so i can send him a hatred email. cause every time i come in thsi thread and read that portion, my blood gets all hot, and i feel like killing him. lol

lol, yeah i knw it has a truth to it. i just said jk at the end so no one gets mad. lol

haha Leila, do u grow beards and go to supermarket like taht? i knw u do, now dnt lie to me. lol

yeah its true, but if bush and blair want some real advantage, they shld wrk with the muslims, or rather, they shld rather wrk for the muslims.
then im sure all this will come to an end. lol

wow guys, i think we won another debate. good job. lol
EEHHH DUDE! you take that back!!! I mean..why you lying? It was YOU..who dressed like a MUSLIMA and went to the SUPERMARKET to buy ---
Lol :P. You stole my dress ,my hijab and my shoes ,thn you went to the supermarket acting all girly and you tried to steal something girly too..good thing i tippd the guard ;).
HAHAHA!! You really trully are krazzzyyyyyy!!!..a hatred mail..haha..geezzz grow up :p. Hatred mails are soo out..you should sen' him a envelope with a bullit innit L0l! and what do you mean by WE won another debate? I won,you just followed :D..actually it wasnt even a realy debate ..anywayz...
> smell yahz later :D

^no ...

we should become atheists

that would make them shut up !

^^ whaddaa'ya mean by WE? im not going to change my religion just to make some weird cheekens shut up. I think the envelope with the bullit will have a bigger impact :D:D

EEHHH DUDE! you take that back!!! I mean..why you lying? It was YOU..who dressed like a MUSLIMA and went to the SUPERMARKET to buy ---
Lol :P. You stole my dress ,my hijab and my shoes ,thn you went to the supermarket acting all girly and you tried to steal something girly too..good thing i tippd the guard ;).
HAHAHA!! You really trully are krazzzyyyyyy!!!..a hatred mail..haha..geezzz grow up :p. Hatred mails are soo out..you should sen' him a envelope with a bullit innit L0l! and what do you mean by WE won another debate? I won,you just followed :D..actually it wasnt even a realy debate ..anywayz...
> smell yahz later :D

i wld never sink that low Leila. lol

hahaha, u wanna send them a bullet? ok well when ur sending the bullet, make sure u write the person's name on it, who ever u are sending it too. lol

nah Sameer, they just need to start wrking witht he Muslims and im sure this will end. lol

can that be any more racist u cant blame all muslims for a very little ersent doing sumthin wrong.thats just wrong.

i cant find another good debate topic yaar. some1 make another good one.

While It’s Certainly True that Not All Muslims Are Terrorists, It’s Equally True that Most Terrorists Are Muslims

Think about the really ghastly terrorist incidents over the past two decades -the 1983 Beirut Marine barracks bombing (242 dead),
the 1988 Pam Am 103 bombing (259 dead),
the 1993 World Trade Center attack (6 dead, more than 1,000 injured),
the 1994 bombing of the Buenos Aires Jewish Center (86 dead),
the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam (291 dead, 5,000 wounded),
the 2000 attack on the U.S.S. Cole (17 dead),
September 11, 2001 (over 3,000 killed),
the 2002 Moscow theater hostage-taking (94 dead),
the 2004 Beslan school hostage crisis (344 dead),
the 2004 Madrid train bombings (192 dead),
the 2005 London underground bombings (56 dead)
and the 2006 commuter train bombings in Mumbai (at least 200 dead).

In each and every case, the killers were …? That is correct, sir -- Muslims! What other religion condones savagery committed in its name? Jesus said turn the other cheek. Muhammed said cut off the other guy’s cheek. The Torah says show kindness to strangers. The Koran says: If you can’t convert them, kill them.:shocked:

The Koran says: If you can’t convert them, kill them.
???

really ??? o_O

no ! the koran says ... : killing 1 person is like killing the whole world .. or something !!! i think !


but i dont know anything about all this !!

The Qu'ran says: "If you cant convert them, kill them"

are u kidding me? that is the most stupidest thing ive ever heard. there is not a single page is Qu'ran that states that. u knw who wrote this? the stupid jews who have nothing better to do but to convert the meaning of Qu'ran and spread em over the internet.

now, i do read the Qu'ran, but i dnt understand exactly what im reading since i dnt understand Arabic. but there is one thing i knw though, the Qu'ran does not say taht.

Zorawar ur a dickhead if taht comment was coming from you!!

Those aren't my words...just the opinion of a right-wing American site.

Howard tells Muslims to learn English (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20322022-601,00.html)

meanwhile:

Pakistani/UK Muslims say Bollywood is bad for Islam (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1948996,curpg-2.cms)

While It’s Certainly True that Not All Muslims Are Terrorists, It’s Equally True that Most Terrorists Are Muslims

Think about the really ghastly terrorist incidents over the past two decades -the 1983 Beirut Marine barracks bombing (242 dead),
the 1988 Pam Am 103 bombing (259 dead),
the 1993 World Trade Center attack (6 dead, more than 1,000 injured),
the 1994 bombing of the Buenos Aires Jewish Center (86 dead),
the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam (291 dead, 5,000 wounded),
the 2000 attack on the U.S.S. Cole (17 dead),
September 11, 2001 (over 3,000 killed),
the 2002 Moscow theater hostage-taking (94 dead),
the 2004 Beslan school hostage crisis (344 dead),
the 2004 Madrid train bombings (192 dead),
the 2005 London underground bombings (56 dead)
and the 2006 commuter train bombings in Mumbai (at least 200 dead).

In each and every case, the killers were …? That is correct, sir -- Muslims! What other religion condones savagery committed in its name? Jesus said turn the other cheek. Muhammed said cut off the other guy’s cheek. The Torah says show kindness to strangers. The Koran says: If you can’t convert them, kill them.:shocked:
THATS ABSOLUTELY RONG,ITS NOT WRITTEN IN QURAN TO KILL THEM 4 NO REASON,THATS A WRONG PERCEPTION.

as far as bollywood being bad for Islam is concerned, well, bollywood is meant to be entertainment, hate em or love em, its ur decision.

what this howard guy needs to learn is he has no right tellin muslim ppl that they need to adapt to austrilian cultural. not just austrilian cultural, any cultural as matter of fact. and its not about muslim cultural either, its abt any cultural. u see, immigrants make up a huge percentage of population. immigrants have a big hand in helping a country grow. the types of jobs immigrants do have a big hand in helping a country function, from driving taxis to wrking midnight shifts at 7/11. its not fair to say "if u cant adapt to our cultural then leave", becuase getting rid of immigrants pretty much means self-destruction for a country.

so heres how i see it, its the immigrants way, or its the high way. :D
lol

The Koran says: If you can’t convert them, kill them.:shocked:

You never mentioned which verse?!

"Muhammed said cut the other cheek"

I find that hard to believe...which hadith was that?!

I think this article summed everything up well... :)

The Islamic View on War

By: Professor Maqsood Jafri

Islam preaches peace and condemns war. There is a general impression that Islam is a militant religion and it was spread by sword. Islamic concept of Jihad is always misrepresented. Eminent British philosopher Bertrand Russell was also of the opinion that Islam is a militant creed. The question arises why such views cropped in the minds of people? There is not a shred of doubt in it that some of the Muslim rulers in the greed of expansionist designs exceeded the Islamic limits. They were aggressors, tyrants and despots. In the name of Islam they raided the peaceful countries and in the monarchic zeal they trampled the human rights under their feet. Their acts should not be regarded as Islamic acts. Islam and Muslims are altogether two different things. Not only the Muslims are to be blamed. The human history is drenched and weltered with human blood. The blood baths in the name of territory or religion are the specks on the brow of history. The way the Mongols ransacked and persecuted the innocent people it is unprecedented in human history. In the book “Prisoners of War” in the story of the Mongols the writer depicts the horrible picture of their invasions. The Mongols were known for brutality, brigandage and bloodshed. Genghis Khan looted, plundered and pillaged mercilessly. The Mongols killed seventy thousand persons in Khorasan and thirty thousand people in Bukhara, Samarqand and Nishapur. The men, women and children were brutally massacred. Stepping into the foot steps of Genghis Khan, Hulogu also mercilessly killed hundreds of thousands Muslims in Baghdad. The crusades between the Christians and the Muslims also brought untold miseries to humans. Those were ancient days. We condemn savagery and curse war. But what our modern and cultured people have done with human race? America dropped atom bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima and killed nearly about three hundred thousands people in the space of few hours. The World War I and the World War II split the blood of million humans. The British trampled the human rights under jackboots in India, Iraq, Egypt and Sudan. Imam Muhammad Shirazi in his book entitled “War, Peace and Non-violence- In Islamic Perspective” writes: “In Sudan, the British soldiers would cut off the heads of those killed and send them to London to be made into ashtrays out of hatred for the Muslims”. In Libya, the Italians killed half the populace, which in those days reached a million. Like wise French in Algeria killed a million Muslims out of nine million people. The Russians killed five million Muslims in various ways in Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Afghanistan. The Pakistani Muslim Army massacred hundreds of thousand Muslims of their own part East Pakistan in 1971. Instead of solving the differences politically, military was used and blood was spilt. In retaliation East Pakistan emerged in the shape of present Bangladesh. Today India is mercilessly killing the Kashmiries in Kashmir. The Palestine seeks just and peaceful settlement as soon as possible. Whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims bloodshed is not accepted. It must be condemned and stopped. Man is the best creation of God. Man must be loved, respected, protected and promoted. Let us see what Islam says about the war and horrors of war. In Sura “The Heifer” the Quran says: “O ye who have faith, enter in to peace all of you, and do not follow the footsteps of Satan” – (2:208). Islam calls to peace and abhors war. Jihad is the last resort in Islam, because the Quran time and again invites to dialogue. To date we realize the importance of Interfaith dialogue but the Quran fourteen hundred years ago had invited the people of the Book to come to peace full terms through dialogue. About peace Allah Almighty says: “And if they incline to peace then incline to peace and put your trust in Allah.”(8:61). Islam emphasizes on the need of peace and avoids war. If war is thrust upon Muslims, then they are asked to defend themselves. Islam does not permit transgression and aggression in any case. In Sura Mumtahana (The woman to be Examined) the Quran says: “Allah does not forbid you, with regards to those who do not fight you for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loves those who are just – Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in those circumstances), that do wrong.” (60:8-9) These verses clearly show that when the Muslims are mistreated and attacked then they must resist and defend themselves. Against aggressors the Quran is very sensitive and specific. Not only about the non-Muslim, even about the Muslim aggressor in Sura Al-Hujurat (The inner Apartment) the Quran says: “If two parties among the Believers fall into a quarrel, you make peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against the other then you (all) fight against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of Allah: but if it complies, then make peace between them with justice, and be fair: for Allah loves those who are fair (and just).” (49:9) The Quran severely condemns injustice, cruelty and bloodshed. The Quranic warfare values are mentioned in the Suras the Spoils of war; the Repentance; the Inner Apartments; the Gathering; the Spider and the Holding.



A narration in related by Hazrat Ali, Hazrat Jafar Sadiq, Hazrat Jabir bin Yazid, Hazrat Ibn Abbas and Hazrat Abn Said al-Khudri that the Holy Prophet (PBUH) did not permit the people who wanted to join Jihad without the permission of their parents. The women, the children, the slaves, the handicapped; the diseased and the insane are exempted from participating in Jihad. Besides the women, the children, the wounded, the monks, the elderly lot and neutral people can neither be imprisoned nor killed during Jihad. In Sura “The Heifer” it is written that during the sacred months i.e. during the months of Rajab; Dhul-Qaedah: Dhul-Hijjah and Muharram the Muslims are ordained to cease fire. But if they are attacked in these months then they can defend themselves. Syed Ali Ibn Tawous in his book “Kash al –Yaqeen” notes the tradition of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) that Islamic war can not be initiated with out a just cause and without a just Muslim ruler. In the book entitled “Daimal-Islam” it is related that the Holy Prophet (PBUH) on the day of the battle of Badr released some prisoners of the clan of Abdal-Muttalib on the plea that they were forced to fight against their wills. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) said: “He who kills a man from the people of the Dhimma (non-Muslims under the protection of Islamic state) will be forbidden paradise the perfume of which can be smelled at a distance of twelve traveling.” If any Jew or Christian is killed in a Muslim state on religious differences it is a great sin and must be forcibly abandoned. On different occasions the Prophet said; “the emissary is not to be killed. Trees are not to be felled. The animals are not to be slaughtered. The houses are not to be razed and the supply of water is not to be cut off”. Islamic views on war teach us that Islam promotes peace and discourages war and bloodshed.



Some religious extremists preach the younger generation to kill the people of other faiths and issue them the tickets to enter the heaven. No body is permitted to kill anyone on religious differences. The Quran in Sura “The Woman” declares: “and as far he who kills a believer deliberately, his reward will be Hell.” (4:93). It is related from Jafar ibn Muhammad, from his father, from Hazrat Ali who said: “The Messenger of Allah said: ‘There is a valley in Hell named ‘Sair’ which if opened the fires will roar from it. Allah has prepared it for the murderers’”. How the bloodshed is cursed the following saying of the Prophet of Islam in a sufficient to prove that: “the first thing that Allah will look at on the Day of Resurrection will be blood.” At a place the Holy Prophet has said: “He who aids and abets in the killing of a believer has taken himself out of Islam.” It does not mean that the blood of non-Muslims is not sacred in Islam. About the non-believers the Prophet of Islam time and again said that their blood, life, property and honor is as sacred as of the Muslims. The motto; message; mission; and mantra of Islam is universal peace. In Sura “The Heifer” the Quran says: “Enter in to a state of peace one and all.” (2:208). Jesus Christ says; “you have been told to love thy friends, but this is not what is important, for even the tithe collectors love their friends. I say to you love thine enemies.” If today the world acts upon this beautiful message of Jesus there will be no war and no blood letting. Hazrat Ali in Nehj Al Balagha says: “People are of two types: either your brother in religion or your equal in creation”. The equal in creation means that the non-believers have equal rights as humans in an Islamic State. Violence is extremely condemned in Islam. To resolve the issues through peaceful means and dialogues is the spirit of Islam. Islam is anti-War and Pro-Peace. Hence it can be said that Islamic view on war is that there should be no war at all.

Source (http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_201_250/islamic_view_on_war.htm)

Im so bored..




let's go bomb something!


Anyone wanna join me? .. Hammad? ..Shazia? lol
:D:D

oye, dnt tlk stuff like that. lol
its not right.

jisko jaise rehna hai rehne do na. live n let live. everyone has different morals and ethics...nobody has the right to tell neone to live a certain way, or learn a certain language or adapt any culture. if u dont like the sight of muslims in australia - then leave australia. go somewhere else...but remember...wherever u go - em muslims gna find u! lol..

Islam is the fastest growing religion and the second largest religion in the world (http://islamicweb.com/begin/results.htm)

one fifth of the world is Muslim. that's a lot. lol

(mind you - these stats are from the mid 90s...so it's gna be evn more now eh)

oye, dnt tlk stuff like that. lol
its not right.
Dnt worry, I was just jokin..:8:
its not like im really gonna do it..
:D

~~

Koenraadelst (http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/articles/misc/PakiComeHome.html)

And then the big excuse: that “this isn’t real Islam”, that “this great peaceful religion condemns terrorism”, that “terrorists have no religion”. We don’t believe this convenient plea, but we would still welcome it if it could actually dissuade would-be terrorists from their project.

Why do you always address us, the non-Muslims, with those rosy stories about peaceful Islam? Why not go to the centres of militancy and repeat those sermons there?

We don’t mean some perfunctory “open letter” meant for non-Muslim consumption, but an earnest effort to persuade the militant Muslims, one that doesn’t stop until the goal is reached. We suspect you have so far never tried this because in your heart of hearts, you are perfectly aware that Islam does condone these acts.

Because you expect the militants to quote chapter and verse from your own Quran to justify their methods, reminding you of how Mohammed’s career mainly consisted in armed struggle against the infidels, and leaving you speechless.

Zorawar, after reading that article in post #29, I'm just speechless. Clearly, whoever wrote it hasn't a clue what Islam is about, and they think that just by taking an english class or two, and using fancy shmancy words, they can persuade Muslims to just let go of their beliefs and "undo their shame". It's not the Muslims who've been brainwashed - it's the western world and their lack of ability to think for themselves. They'll believe whatever the media says. Just because a small minority of Muslims speak and act on their anger - it doesn't mean that the entire religion is based on terrorism - and it certainly doesn't mean that you can go and blame each and every Muslim individual for the doings of a small number of people. These terrorists do not represent us. Or rather, they should not. It's a shame that people belive that they do. It's pethetic how some people think -

lol, people who write dumbass articles like those should have their hands cut off. like, read what that article is saying. the writer is intentionally trying to add more spark to the already burning flame. it's absolutely retarded.

"Truthfully your condeming of our faith would probably have you warned, and if you persisted, would have consequences, of which i am not sure. But there have been cases where people have been put to death for MALICIOUSLY harming the image of our noble master Muhammad, the best creation of God. But you fail to see that islam means peace, just as when we meet each other and say 'assalamu alaikum' 'peace be upon you' to our brothers. We are a tolerant religion, and our communities have and still have many faiths still practicing their own religions in islamic land. From the time of the prophet up until today." The preceding quote was received via e-mail from a Muslim. Notice that he says Islam is a religion of peace, yet that there would be "consequences" for me in my condemnation of Islam. (Matt Slick)

Nevertheless, is Islam a religion of peace? Many of its advocates say that it is. Let's see what the Qur'an actually says.

The Qur'an tells muslims to kill and go to war to fight for Islam: Quran, chapters (Surahs) 9:5; 2:191; 2:193; 3:118; 4:75,76; 5:33, 8:12; 8:65; 9:73,123; 33:60-62.

Fight for Allah: "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers, (Quran 2:191).

Muslims are to battle for Allah: "Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak," (Quran 4:76).

Kill those against Islam: "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter," (Quran 5:33).

Beheading: "When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. 13That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment," (Quran 8:12).

Allah urges war: "O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand," (Quran 8:65).

Slay non-muslims: "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful," (Quran 9:5).

Allah urges war: "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination," (Quran 9:73).

Allah urges war: "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil)," (Quran 9:123).

Allah urges killing: "...the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist... 61Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering. 62(Such has been) the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and you shall not find any change in the course of Allah, (Quran 33:60-62).

Beheading: "Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens..." (Quran 47:4).

Allah loves those who fight for him. "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure," (Quran 61:4).

As you can see, the Qur'an definitely teaches that it's people are to fight for the cause of Islam. This list of verses is important because they are within the holy book of Islam. What are we to conclude if a Muslim or to take the Quran seriously? Is he not obligated to slay non-Muslims, to go to war, to kill those against Islam, etc.? Isn't this what the verses are teaching? Yes, they are and this is the source of Islamic Terrorism.

This is not saying all Muslims are Terrorists. There are probably verses in the Qur'an that show the peaceful side of Islam but then again there are these versus that show the militant side. Somebody posted that just because there are rapes from white people that the Christian and Jews religions should be blamed. First of all this is a very bad analogy. Never in the Bible or the Torah does it say to advocate Rape. Never. But in the Qur'an it says to fight for Islam. You cannot use that analogy because raping is not encouraged in the Bible or the Torah so we must look down upon Christianity and Judaism. You CAN use that position, that for fighting for Allah can be blamed on Islam, because it is encouraged. These verses are from the Qur'an and they advocate violence. Does it not say to Fight for Allah? Fight for Muhammad? Fight for Islam? Yes it does and to do it by the sword (war).

aww. go kill the POP haha :p

Nevertheless, is Islam a religion of peace? Many of its advocates say that it is. Let's see what the Qur'an actually says.




What we have heard about what our Muslim brothers are going through in kaafir countries in the north and the south, where they are being harassed and persecuted for something in which they did not take part and in which they played no role, is not strange, given the wrongdoing and hatred of the kuffaar, even though they claim to be the people of justice, fairness and freedom. What is the crime of a Muslim woman who walks down the street in her hijaab? What is the crime of a Muslim who leaves his home to go and pray, not to spread mischief in the land? What is the crime of a Muslim employee who goes to his company or a student who goes to his university or a schoolgirl who is walking to her school, not going out to bomb and destroy? If the western man in the street was fair-minded – at least with himself – he would go and take revenge on the people who plotted and took part in harming him. But one who does not fear God could do anything, and the very least that the Muslims will be faced with is curses and insults. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and you shall certainly hear much that will grieve you from those who received the Scripture before you (Jews and Christians) and from those who ascribe partners to Allaah; but if you persevere patiently, and become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious) then verily, that will be a determining factor in all affairs”[Aal ‘Imraan 3:186]

Our attitude must be clear; we must explain to the kuffaar the ruling of Islamic sharee’ah concerning harming and killing others. We should tell them that Islam forbids harming innocent people in any way, whether that involves harming their bodies, their wealth or their honour. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.” It is not permissible to kill a kaafir who is not hostile or who has a legitimate peace treaty with the Muslims; rather treating a non-hostile kaafir with kindness is part of the Islamic religion, especially if that is done to call him to Islam and soften his heart (towards Islam). Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Allaah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, Allaah loves those who deal with equity”[al-Mumtahinah 60:8]

At times of war against the kuffaar, it is not permissible for a Muslim to deliberately kill a kaafir child or woman who is not bearing arms against the Muslims or helping in the fight. It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to the Muslim army: “Go out in the name of Allaah and by the help of Allaah, following the way of the Messenger of Allaah. Do not kill any old man, infant, child or woman… spread goodness and do good, for Allaah loves those who do good.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2614; its isnaad includes Khaalid ibn al-Faraz, of whom Ibn Hajar said in al-Taqreeb, he is maqbool (acceptable) i.e., if there are corroborating reports)

This is supported by the advice which Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him) gave to the commander of his army: “I advise you of ten things: do not kill a woman, or a child, or any old person, or cut down any fruit trees…” (al-Muwatta’, 982, Kitaab al-Jihaad).

The kaafirs whom the Muslims fight and inflict harm and loss upon are the kaafirs who fight the Muslims and drive them out of their homes, or help to drive them out of their homes and punish and mistreat them, and who stand in the way of calling people to Islam and prevent people from following the path of Allaah, and prevent the spread of Islam. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allaah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zaalimoon (wrongdoers those who disobey Allaah).”[al-Mumtahinah 60:9]

Such people are to be fought against when [the Muslims] have the power to do so, and when fighting them and declaring jihad against them is more likely to serve a purpose. But when you can achieve your purpose with gentleness and kindness, it is not right to resort to violence and force. Muslims should only use force when they are compelled to, and as a last resort. They should not initiate fighting, unless there is some cause on the part of the kaafirs, such as their fighting the Muslims, or helping other enemies of the Muslims, or preventing them from following the path of Allaah and establishing the law of Allaah in the land.

We should also remind these kaafirs of the massacres which have been carried out and are still being carried out against Muslims in all parts of the world, in Bosnia, Kosova, Chechnya, Palestine and Kashmir, which are being supported by Jews, Christians and others. Is the blood of the Muslims cheaper than the blood of others? Should there be mourners for non-Muslims who are killed and not for Muslims who are killed?

Moreover, when the Orthodox Christians carried out massacres in Bosnia and Kosova, in which the numbers of those killed exceeded 200,000, apart from those who were wounded or raped, and the economic losses that resulted, did the Muslims in the Arab and Islamic countries launch attacks against the Orthodox Christians who live in their countries, or kill any of them, or open fire against their churches and subject them to terror?! What does this tell you?

It is very important for Muslims to explain these things to non-Muslims, in order to establish proof against the kuffaar. This is something that Allaah wants. Secondly, among the kuffaar there are intelligent and fair-minded people, and people who are receptive to the guidance of Islam; perhaps they will be affected by a clear explanation. Thirdly, no Muslim should permit himself to be accused without explaining his innocence. The distorted image of Muslims is one of the things that is keeping the kaafirs away from the truth and being affected by the Muslims; indeed it may make them treat the Muslims like outcasts, resulting in additional wrongdoing towards the Muslims.

“The Muslim in a kaafir country that is at war with the Muslims or otherwise is not commanded to differ from them in outward appearance, because of the harm that may result from that. Rather it is recommended or obligatory for men to resemble them sometimes in his outward appearance, if that serves a religious purpose such as calling them to Islam, or finding out about their true state of affairs in order to inform the Muslims of that, or warding off their harm from the Muslims, and other righteous goals.” (Iqtidaa’ al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem, p. 176).

Perhaps these events will give the Muslims who are living in kaafir lands unnecessarily and for no shar’i purpose the opportunity to review their situation and consider going back to the Muslim world and making hijrah from the land of the kaafirs.

We ask Allaah to protect us and all our Muslim brothers from harm, wrongdoing and evil, and guide us to the right path. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and grant him peace.







dalijeet89 go shoot yourself !

As you can see, the Qur'an definitely teaches that it's people are to fight for the cause of Islam. This list of verses is important because they are within the holy book of Islam. What are we to conclude if a Muslim or to take the Quran seriously? Is he not obligated to slay non-Muslims, to go to war, to kill those against Islam, etc.? Isn't this what the verses are teaching? Yes, they are and this is the source of Islamic Terrorism.

This is not saying all Muslims are Terrorists. There are probably verses in the Qur'an that show the peaceful side of Islam but then again there are these versus that show the militant side. Somebody posted that just because there are rapes from white people that the Christian and Jews religions should be blamed. First of all this is a very bad analogy. Never in the Bible or the Torah does it say to advocate Rape. Never. But in the Qur'an it says to fight for Islam. You cannot use that analogy because raping is not encouraged in the Bible or the Torah so we must look down upon Christianity and Judaism. You CAN use that position, that for fighting for Allah can be blamed on Islam, because it is encouraged. These verses are from the Qur'an and they advocate violence. Does it not say to Fight for Allah? Fight for Muhammad? Fight for Islam? Yes it does and to do it by the sword (war).

It's true it talks about war in the Quran as it does in the Bible and the Torah as well. So can you tell me that if a group of Christians where to kill a large number of people will Christianity be questioned? Will the Bible be blamed for their actions?

If the Quran preached war...there'd be bombings everyday. What's fueled terrorism is the war in Iraq....war in Lebnon. Qura'n is merely a tool those use to justify their acts as "jihad".

People are so willing to point the finger at Islam 'cause its the easy option....but no-one see's the work Muslim's do everyday to preach the right way of Islam to people rather than mislead them with half information or quotes like those just posed. Tell me do you watch the channels that try to get these issues solved or read the websites these people make to paint the correct picture of Islam. Now do you? Instead everyone reads what's in the tabloids written by someone who doesn't even understand the meaning of Islam. Truth is the more you point the finger at Islam...and blame Islam for these events the more you push the Muslim community away.

Like i said the Qur'an does not tell that ALL muslims are terrorists. I have presented that the Qur'an advocates war. It is clearly found in the Qur'an. Again like i said the Qur'an also teaches about peace and i have glad you have given my evidence to support this. But the Qur'an also teaches war with the unbelievers and those against Allah and Muhammad.

wow i am going to keep myself from totally cussing ur arrogant ass off..
but yeah when allah (SWT) says fight for him he doesnt mean just go and kill someone if there against you.
jihad = struggle for allah
not just physical but mental
and i have not seen half of those translations that u posted..
ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE.. our greeting "assalamoalaikum" means peace be upon you... and when we say "wa lai kum asalam" we are returning the peace...
and when hes talking about a physical fight for allah its if ur in WAR, NOT JUST RANDOMLY KILL SOMEONE CAUSE THERE AGAINST YOU
go google the rules of war in islam
and ull see wtf it says.
we cant just go and kill people.
... and im at school right now i cant really reply to this well cause the bell is about to ring..
but when i get home ill get back to u at this

i am just showing what the Qur'an says about it. These are quotes from the Qur'an.

You have not refuted these quotes so i am guessing this is a correct translation. Why am i ignorant? Just because YOU say that Islam is just a relgion of PEACE it makes it so. I understand that there are verses in the Qur'an that show the peaceful side of Islam. In your greetings you say peace be upon you. I acknowledge this. I am just showing you the source of Islamic terrorism. Again I am going to clarify that these verses DO NOT say that ALL muslims are terrorists.

the pop said kill...... ... !!!

i am just showing what the Qur'an says about it. These are quotes from the Qur'an.

You have not refuted these quotes so i am guessing this is a correct translation. Why am i ignorant? Just because YOU say that Islam is just a relgion of PEACE it makes it so. I understand that there are verses in the Qur'an that show the peaceful side of Islam. In your greetings you say peace be upon you. I acknowledge this. I am just showing you the source of Islamic terrorism. Again I am going to clarify that these verses DO NOT say that ALL muslims are terrorists.
when you show this u dont even kno wtf ur showing
U DONT EVEN KNO WHAT FREAKIN JIHAD IS.
ITS STRUGGLE FOR ALLAH AS I POSTED BEFORE.
NOT PHYSICALLY BUT MENTALLY
AND WHEN ITS TALKING ABOUT KILLING PEOPLE ITS TALKING ABOUT IN WAY NOT JUST KILLING PEOPLE JUST CAUSE THEIR AGAINST U AS I SAID BEFORE
U HAVE NO BACKROUND IN ISLAM AND HERE U ARE POSTING RANDOM VERSES WITHOUT THE SORROUNDED VERSES FROM THE QURAN.
ashiduasduia
people like u piss me off.

then tell me what the surrounding verses are? Do they alter the meaning of the text?

^i was gonna mention the same thing. dont just copy and paste stuff from the internet about the Qu'ran. never blieve anything that is written about the Qu'ran over the internet, the only time u should believe in Qu'ran is when you understand it urself while ur reciting it.

when you show this u dont even kno wtf ur showing
U DONT EVEN KNO WHAT FREAKIN JIHAD IS.
ITS STRUGGLE FOR ALLAH AS I POSTED BEFORE.
NOT PHYSICALLY BUT MENTALLY
AND WHEN ITS TALKING ABOUT KILLING PEOPLE ITS TALKING ABOUT IN WAY NOT JUST KILLING PEOPLE JUST CAUSE THEIR AGAINST U AS I SAID BEFORE
U HAVE NO BACKROUND IN ISLAM AND HERE U ARE POSTING RANDOM VERSES WITHOUT THE SORROUNDED VERSES FROM THE QURAN.
ashiduasduia
people like u piss me off.


No. I DO know what i am showing. Verses from the Qur'an. Please dont point me out as an "Islam hater". I am not. I never have nor will i be. the topic showed Islam as a "terrorist" religion. this is not the case. All muslims are not terrorists. But the verses showed from the Qur'an is the source of Islamic terrorism. I do not just copy and paste from random websites. The info i obtain about Islam is www.carm.org. I do not use google for information. It is not trustworthy. If i do use an outside source other than carm i go to en.wikipedia.com

.... u dont kno shit urself
uve never took the time and actually READ the quran so stop attacking us muslims

.... u dont kno shit urself
uve never took the time and actually READ the quran so stop attacking us muslims

i do know what i am talking about. i use carm.org as a resource and try to explain myslef from there. if i cant i just give the link. i have not read the qur'an. how am i attacking muslims?

by posting all these topics agaisnt Islam but u kno what go ahead cause im up for a challenge and plus its ramadan id get da wah for getting rid of people mis udnerstandings, sorry for being rude to you earlier

then tell me what the surrounding verses are? Do they alter the meaning of the text?

i showed u one on the other topic on one of the contridictions u listed, apparently u failed to read it.

AND YES SORROUNDING VERSES DO ALTER THE MEANING OF THE TEXT

ITS LIKE READING A BOOK, IF YOU PICK UP A RANDOM LINE IN THE BOOK YOUR OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO KNOW WHAT THE AUTHOR IS SAYING OR WHAT ITS LEADING TOO YOU HAVE TO READ THE CONTEXT... U KNO BACK IN JUNIOR HIGH IT WAS CALLED "CONTEXT CLUES" YOU USE THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE AUTHOR IS TRYING TO SAY
the quran is like a book its seperated into 30 chapters and these chapters are further divided into surahs and i believe there are 114 of them
each surah has its own topic and the surahs are even given names u cant just pick up a line and pick up another line and know what allah (SWT) is saying u have to actually READ the whole thing or atleast from the beggining of the surah to understand the point/story that allah (SWT) is telling.

the pop said kill musilims>..................

well the pope* can die
lol

i showed u one on the other topic on one of the contridictions u listed, apparently u failed to read it.

AND YES SORROUNDING VERSES DO ALTER THE MEANING OF THE TEXT

ITS LIKE READING A BOOK, IF YOU PICK UP A RANDOM LINE IN THE BOOK YOUR OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO KNOW WHAT THE AUTHOR IS SAYING OR WHAT ITS LEADING TOO YOU HAVE TO READ THE CONTEXT... U KNO BACK IN JUNIOR HIGH IT WAS CALLED "CONTEXT CLUES" YOU USE THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE AUTHOR IS TRYING TO SAY
the quran is like a book its seperated into 30 chapters and these chapters are further divided into surahs and i believe there are 114 of them
each surah has its own topic and the surahs are even given names u cant just pick up a line and pick up another line and know what allah (SWT) is saying u have to actually READ the whole thing or atleast from the beggining of the surah to understand the point/story that allah (SWT) is telling.

I did read the other topic and the verses surroundig the first surah about Pharoh. it said the same thing that Pharoh did not die. I acknowledge this. I have not read the Qur'an just like you probably have not read the Bible. I am not asking you to read the Bible.

ive read some parts of the bible
only when the missionarys come to the masjid though